Owen's Practice Journal, Part II

wow thats amazing - I look forward to hearing more about this.

Kenneth recommended that while grounding and being aware of the body - I can note the tension points with "release." They relax really quickly while doing this and often times bliss results. Also combining grounding with listening for the ships is a very rewarding experience. So I am noting positive states with corresponding words, but negativity with "release."

"Kenneth recommended that while grounding and being aware of the body - I can note the tension points with "release." They relax really quickly while doing this and often times bliss results. Also combining grounding with listening for the ships is a very rewarding experience. So I am noting positive states with corresponding words, but negativity with "release.""

Oooooo.... shiny. Working nicely. Thanks.

"Sounds like a powerful practise, Owen! Keep it up and keep on posting how it develops"

Hey, you inspired me to get off my fluffy butt and finish with the 6th stage. So, thanks.

"Keep your hand on the switch, Owen! Having sustained it for a week, you can sustain it for two. If you can sustain it for two, you can sustain it for four. By the time you have lived like this for six weeks, you have probably seen through the mirage of mind states for good. Body sensations will continue to arise as richly as before, but you will no longer find a mind to have a state. What were previously seen as emotions are seen as body-states. At that point, you have a lot of options. You can cultivate the body states of joy, bliss, well being, and the Brahma Viharas, for example, and let the body states associated with irritation and annoyance atrophy. (This would be my recommendation.)



Kenneth"

Kenneth, can you please give specific examples as to how to cultivate bliss or the Brahma Viharas as body states? This is really interesting.

"Oooooo.... shiny. Working nicely. Thanks."

Mudita
LOL

"It's been over a week since I've experienced any glomming of thought and emotion. Body does it's thing and thoughts happen. Being rather insistent about the deadman and the tollbooth. I've never had this kind of consistent mind state. The worst it gets is somewhat neutral. I'm also noticing my body basically just responds to the situation, what I once perceived as anxiety just comes up as a physical sensation and I just smile at it. Don't know what else to say, I've become pretty happy and boring. Curious if this continues.
"

Man, I want to try this! I am so embedded in anxiety that I sometimes feel I can hardly stand it--what you're describing sounds like the ticket out of that hell.

JLaurelC
- Watch the direct path videos on Kenneth's youtube

www.youtube.com/user/kennethfolkdharma

"Man, I want to try this! I am so embedded in anxiety that I sometimes feel I can hardly stand it--what you're describing sounds like the ticket out of that hell."

It might be an oversimplification, but I think release from chronic anxiety is the reason 99% of us begin practice. This particular phase is incredibly rewarding.

Owen,
Thanks for the update, this is just the reminder of where this practice can lead that I need right now. Very inspirational and motivating.

"Owen,
Thanks for the update, this is just the reminder of where this practice can lead that I need right now. Very inspirational and motivating."

Hey Rev, glad I can help.

It's fascinating to think of the different ways I could go with this. It was interesting this morning, I was waking up and I noted an initial thought "crap... alarm.. too tired" and before it could turn into anything I automatically dropped it, knowing exactly where that line of thinking would end up - physical pain and constriction. Instead I just took a deep breath and noticed the smell of fabric softener on my pillowcase and how good it felt to simply stretch my legs and back. Back to reality.

I'm also noticing more subtle sensations involving the movement of attention and how it overlays experience. It's pretty wild.

"Hey, you inspired me to get off my fluffy butt and finish with the 6th stage. So, thanks.
-Owen"

Then I guess we take turns to inspire each other

After riding the sensations for some time, it is possible to experience the ever-changing stream of mind states as a vibration. See post #18

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/44...fset=0&maxResults=20

When that happens, one can tune to that vibration any time and take it as an object, dwelling in the state continuously. I called that practise Being the Sensations, see post #24. For me it resulted quickly in a major baseline shift that is called 6th state (see post #25).

Mudita,
Antero.

"
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/44...fset=0&maxResults=20

When that happens, one can tune to that vibration any time and take it as an object, dwelling in the state continuously. I called that practise Being the Sensations, see post #24. For me it resulted quickly in a major baseline shift that is called 6th state (see post #25).
"

Antero, this makes a lot of sense. I've been doing something similar for a while now, just thinking of it as merging with experience.

The funny bit for me is the movement that precedes the intention to merge or be the sensations. Noting that there appears to be a "self" that can merge with sensations and attempting to note what it is that causes that sense of self is fascinating to me.

What exactly is the causal foundation for the sense that there is a set of sensations that still has the flavor of self? It's probably better to think of the word "self" as a verb, something that is being habitually done to experience. Catching that moment when selfing is just beginning to arise is amazing. It's like I'm watching the very first link in the twelve nidānas form when I do that, that it stops the entire process and I'm left with a startlingly direct clarity.

"What exactly is the causal foundation for the sense that there is a set of sensations that still has the flavor of self? It's probably better to think of the word "self" as a verb, something that is being habitually done to experience. Catching that moment when selfing is just beginning to arise is amazing. It's like I'm watching the very first link in the twelve nidānas form when I do that, that it stops the entire process and I'm left with a startlingly direct clarity."

When you talk about 'self' being better thought of as a verb, it reminds me of this article "The Paradox of Becoming": www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writings/TheParadoxOfBecoming.pdf . They translated 'bhava' as 'becoming', as a continuous process, and the article talks about how the goal of the Buddha's teaching was to stop the process of becoming. Sounds like you're getting a good grip on it. Fun stuff!

As to what causes the sense that there is a set of sensations that still has the flavor of a self - maybe it's the self itself?

"What exactly is the causal foundation for the sense that there is a set of sensations that still has the flavor of self? It's probably better to think of the word "self" as a verb, something that is being habitually done to experience. Catching that moment when selfing is just beginning to arise is amazing. It's like I'm watching the very first link in the twelve nidānas form when I do that, that it stops the entire process and I'm left with a startlingly direct clarity.
-Owen"

Yes, I agree. I have been watching this process happening for some time now and it still amazes me. For me selfing seems to come along with thoughts of judgement, comparing, self-righteousness, self-criticising, pride, fantasizing and whatever. When it all falls away for some time there is just seeing, hearing and experiencing with nothing added to it. Just clarity and ease remains.

"Yes, I agree. I have been watching this process happening for some time now and it still amazes me. For me selfing seems to come along with thoughts of judgement, comparing, self-righteousness, self-criticising, pride, fantasizing and whatever. When it all falls away for some time there is just seeing, hearing and experiencing with nothing added to it. Just clarity and ease remains."

Right! The narration of experience vs the being of experience. And I can stop narrating for a time, but I keep getting pulled back into it. The present question seems to be "why do I need to talk (internally) about what's happening? What's the payoff?"

"Right! The narration of experience vs the being of experience. And I can stop narrating for a time, but I keep getting pulled back into it. The present question seems to be "why do I need to talk (internally) about what's happening? What's the payoff?"
-Owen
"

IMHO: it is a complete waste of our time

"IMHO: it is a complete waste of our time "

Agreed, but.. there must be some kind of reinforcement for the habit of narrative thinking to become so entrenched. I figure that if I deeply grok what that is _and_ let it go, staying out of it will be that much easier. It seems to be (working theory) that it enables me to create a virtual world, one into which I can escape when aversion to the present moment become too strong - or when a pleasurable moment is ending and I want it to remain. Given a lifetime of habit energy supporting that deluded practice, getting rid of it is no small matter. I mean, we are in essence talking about 24x7 samadhi here.

I can see two possible ways out of it so far. [comments most welcome]
1. Keep a continual thread of awareness that will enable me to know the instant I'm beginning to narrate my experience.
2. Become so bloody fascinated by what is actually happening, I don't get a chance to narrate.

#2 seems to be the better route, as it doesn't have the problem of aversion to my conditioned (narrative) mind state. Also, practices that are pleasant have the advantage of a positive feedback loop which aids in their establishment.

Are you able to use the toll booth guy for thoughts as well? "I'm thinking - would feel better if I didn't. In goes a coin"

I've been trying that, it seems to deepen over time.

"Are you able to use the toll booth guy for thoughts as well? "I'm thinking - would feel better if I didn't. In goes a coin"

I've been trying that, it seems to deepen over time."

Perhaps a good feedback loop would be:

1. Note until mindfulness is established
2. Get fascinated by reality as it is
3. Wait to get knocked out
4. Once knocked out, toll both
5. Goto 1.

This is some high-quality stuff here, really super mega interesting avenues to explore and it's gotten me all excited about this again!

Also, just had a quick read through the last few pages and got a heartful of metta out of it. Top drawer practice chaps, a real inspiration.

"Perhaps a good feedback loop would be:

1. Note until mindfulness is established
2. Get fascinated by reality as it is
3. Wait to get knocked out
4. Once knocked out, toll both
5. Goto 1.
"

Brilliant!

What do you mean by 'get knocked out'?

"What do you mean by 'get knocked out'?"

Get distracted from the present moment as it is by the supposed reality of thoughts.

" It seems to be (working theory) that it enables me to create a virtual world, one into which I can escape when aversion to the present moment become too strong - or when a pleasurable moment is ending and I want it to remain. Given a lifetime of habit energy supporting that deluded practice, getting rid of it is no small matter. I mean, we are in essence talking about 24x7 samadhi here.

I can see two possible ways out of it so far. [comments most welcome]
1. Keep a continual thread of awareness that will enable me to know the instant I'm beginning to narrate my experience.
2. Become so bloody fascinated by what is actually happening, I don't get a chance to narrate.

- Owen"

Kenneth told me about a recent study on two modes of perception. When we are fully engaged, we get direct input from the senses. At other times the default narrative mode is in operation. This is consisted with my experience so far, and I have not been able to see any aversion to experience happening.

I have been working with binary noting (silence and noise), which is a good way to keep the feedback loop going and when noting is not convenient I try to become interested in every little detail of the experience. The latter works only for some time before the concentration wavers and the narrative mode automatically kicks in.

Enquiring 'Who am I' complements noting nicely by creating a powerful rapture and all tension is dropped for a moment.

The difficult thing for me has been noticing the exact moment when the mind starts to wander. If it is noticed, binary noting brings the attention quickly back to the present moment. With proper mindfulness it is possible to notice how the eye focus starts to relax exactly at the same time when narrative thoughts form.

Always open for new approaches, so keep on investigating