Owen's Practice Journal, Part II

""Alzheimer-like symptoms"

I remember reading that now.

"

heehee

"It's strange when everything collapses into an unending now."

Interesting. Could you describe in detail how you experience mind states and thoughts?

"Interesting. Could you describe in detail how you experience mind states and thoughts?"

Not a lot to note nowdays. My mind is boring. There is a pull... as if being in any other state than one of direct intimacy with what is going on NOW and HERE is somehow like dying a little. Knowing things seems empty and hollow, figuring out who I am seems stupid and meaningless, and viewpoints are just more ********. Clinging to concepts now would be like getting welcomed home after years abroad and bitching about the new paint job in the kitchen.

I wonder what would happen if you sat down and gave your mind a permission to do whatever it liked.

"I wonder what would happen if you sat down and gave your mind a permission to do whatever it liked."

When I do that, I typically get pulled into a PCE/EE - OR I wind up falling asleep. It's nice.

Hi Owen,
I too was plagued, and still am to a lesser degree, by a devastating loss of memory. It caused some relational damage in my marriage and I had to wing a lot of stuff at work. I was very worried about it for a while and then figured there is something awesome ann beautiful about beginning to live my life intuitevely which I am now practising. I don't mind anymore about dying a little more every day, it's rebirthing me into a state of wonder and splendour. I can't go back and I don't want to. I am falling in love with what you so aptly described as the 'intimacy of what is going on now,' and I love, more and more, discovering the deeper nature of that experience. Just hope I can hang on to my job, although I suspect at some point, that won't matter much either!!
Paul

"When I do that, I typically get pulled into a PCE/EE - OR I wind up falling asleep. It's nice.
"

Hi Owen,

I'm not sure I know what a PCE/EE is. Can you describe it in phenomenological terms?

Sorry, that should have been PCE or EE. EE is the happy border between full self contraction mode and PCE. It's kind of like when you are in the shower and you have soap in your ears, then it washes out and all the sounds come back online- but for all the senses.

Owen, what exactly does "EE"" stand for?

Eric

"Owen, what exactly does "EE"" stand for?

Eric"

Sorry, it stands for Excellence Experience.

"Sorry, it stands for Excellence Experience."

I see, more of a Bill & Ted than a Mr. Burns "excellent" then. . .

Ok, so this boring-ass mind state has survived two entertaining encounters.

1. I broke my toe. Badly. Doing pull-ups (don't ask. srsly, don't ask). My middle toe is about the size of my big toe. Thoughts were "Oh, this seems broken." Finished off the rest of my evening with a limp and got it checked out the next day. I feel almost British.

2. Got profanaties screamed at me by my boss in a meeting. Mild surprise, though my body did tense a good deal. I told (basically) to cut that crap out and we are back to being friends.

This is fraking amazing. Six months ago I would have held on to this stuff until it had claw marks. Go grounding practice.

"1. I broke my toe. Badly. Doing pull-ups (don't ask. srsly, don't ask)."

??? =P. =(. =)!

" I feel almost British."

Me too!

Hey Owen! I've enjoyed reading the recent parts of your journal. (Haven't gone back to the beginning yet.) If you didn't break your toe by dropping a weight on it during pull-ups, the story is probably so awesome that it's worth sharing.

I wonder if you wouldn't mind comparing some notes on direct mode / EEs / PCEs. If not, let me ask you two questions:

*In your experience of these, how (if at all) does your perception of vibrations in the senses change?

*In your experience of this, how (if at all) does the "internal duplication" of sensory experiences (e.g. the "mental echo" of sounds that you hear) change?

"Hey Owen! I've enjoyed reading the recent parts of your journal. (Haven't gone back to the beginning yet.) If you didn't break your toe by dropping a weight on it during pull-ups, the story is probably so awesome that it's worth sharing.

I wonder if you wouldn't mind comparing some notes on direct mode / EEs / PCEs. If not, let me ask you two questions:

*In your experience of these, how (if at all) does your perception of vibrations in the senses change?

*In your experience of this, how (if at all) does the "internal duplication" of sensory experiences (e.g. the "mental echo" of sounds that you hear) change?"

Yeah.. I might tell that story online someday, but not today.

Anyway, let me try and answer your other questions.

Direct mode is better thought of as a practice modality and not a state. Think 3rd gear style.
In an EE, there is a vastly reduced sense of vibration of sensations. In a pce, everything is
exceedingly stable feeling and centerless.

As for the "internal duplication", assuming I'm following what you mean by that I haven't experienced it since 5th stage.

In a PCE, do you experience absolutely no vibrations in any sensory modality at all, or are they simply highly suppressed? (My experience in cultivating direct mode is that vibrations are suppressed but never absent; I wonder if that's just how it is, or whether there is a deeper experience that involves no vibrations.)

"Internal duplication" means that e.g. if you attend to a musical note, there is the note (the sense experience) and also a low-fi mental "copy" of the note. (When I hear something without paying attention or consciously processing it in any way, there is no duplication, so I assume it has something to do with attention.) Is that something you used to have but got rid of at stage 5? If so, what is the phenomenological difference between a sense object you attend to and one that you sense under the radar (e.g. background noise that you're not listening to) when not in an EE/PCE?

"In a PCE, do you experience absolutely no vibrations in any sensory modality at all, or are they simply highly suppressed? (My experience in cultivating direct mode is that vibrations are suppressed but never absent; I wonder if that's just how it is, or whether there is a deeper experience that involves no vibrations.)

"Internal duplication" means that e.g. if you attend to a musical note, there is the note (the sense experience) and also a low-fi mental "copy" of the note. (When I hear something without paying attention or consciously processing it in any way, there is no duplication, so I assume it has something to do with attention.) Is that something you used to have but got rid of at stage 5? If so, what is the phenomenological difference between a sense object you attend to and one that you sense under the radar (e.g. background noise that you're not listening to) when not in an EE/PCE?"

In a PCE, there are no vibrations. And in my baseline mode after stage 5, what you are talking about disappeared.

As to the rest of it, I don't know man. But I will tell you, when I drink my coffee in the morning I really taste it.

So as I am now getting firmly ensconced in my current practice, I thought I would kick out a few observations for those who are interested. I had... don't know if it could be called a backslide into a negative mind state, it was read as physical sensations as far as I could tell though the vedana level got super unpleasant. Anyway, it lasted for a few days. As I was working on a first dharma talk for my new class which was tentatively titled "comfortable in your own skin", I had a thought that kinda knocked me over. "I" will never be happy. "I" will never be comfortable. The "I" is in fact the basic problem. "I" gotta go.

I don't believe the 8th stage on the map is possible while the self contraction continues to arise. In a PCE, there is basically no narrative thinking. So... hate to say it but what the AF folks are reporting might be the end of the lines in terms of developmental enlightenment. That's my working theory anyway. I'm okay with being wrong. I also keep running across references in the suttas saying stuff like "happy indeed are the arhants, those for whom the crossbar has been lifted". The fact that the self contraction continues to arise - even when seen through with a high degree of non-stick and equanimity, is still a problem. The arising of the "I" sense, though not painful in itself, leads inevitably to narration which takes me out of THIS. To live as a story is just insane when there is the opportunity to be reality. From this vantage point, I can't see a single good reason why something that isn't real should be read as something that is.

Owen, thanks for the info. Did you do anything special to get rid of the internal duplication, or was it a surprise when it went?

"Owen, thanks for the info. Did you do anything special to get rid of the internal duplication, or was it a surprise when it went?"

It was one of the big surprises of technical map 4th.

The arising of the "I" sense, though not painful in itself, leads inevitably to narration which takes me out of THIS. To live as a story is just insane when there is the opportunity to be reality. From this vantage point, I can't see a single good reason why something that isn't real should be read as something that is.
-Owen

Could you specify what do you mean by 'self contraction' in this context? Reading your post #301 I got the feeling that you went through a shift in your practise and the self contraction was lost. What do you get if you try to do the Witness? After 7th stage doing 2nd gear became impossible for me. I just couldn't lock on to it anymore. Subtle self referencing (thoughts) still continued after that, but no feeling of localized contraction in the head was felt.

"The arising of the "I" sense, though not painful in itself, leads inevitably to narration which takes me out of THIS. To live as a story is just insane when there is the opportunity to be reality. From this vantage point, I can't see a single good reason why something that isn't real should be read as something that is.
-Owen

Could you specify what do you mean by 'self contraction' in this context? Reading your post #301 I got the feeling that you went through a shift in your practise and the self contraction was lost. What do you get if you try to do the Witness? After 7th stage doing 2nd gear became impossible for me. I just couldn't lock on to it anymore. Subtle self referencing (thoughts) still continued after that, but no feeling of localized contraction in the head was felt.
"

I can also attest to the fact that 2nd gear is impossible. BTW, thanks for pointing that out, I doubt I would have thought to try the witness until you mentioned it. I ask "who am I" and the answer seems to come back instantly "THIS".
When I talk about the self-contraction or the "I" I'm referring to the sense of being. Rather then get into a bunch of language traps, quite simply it's the component that's missing during a pce.
For me, phenomena that gets "selfed" continues to arise, it just doesn't generate additional vedana.
So if we examine the first 4 of the twelve nidanas we have:

1. Bhava: becoming - initial feeling, gives rise to birth
2. Upādāna: clinging or desire/aversion, gives rise to becoming
3. Tanha: thirst/craving, gives rise to clinging
4. Vedana: Feeling, gives rise to craving
... and so on

The Buddha constantly talked about the final end of becoming. That was the point, since it is in fact the first link in the chain that winds up in samsara. I'm firmly convinced that a pce is a glimpse into the end of becoming.

Could you go into why exactly you changed your mind about AF? Seems just two weeks ago you weren't set on it at all. Could you go into the arguments you used to have about not pursuing AF (perhaps that about love + compassion; perhaps those in your podcast with Nick; and any others) and go into why those don't apply anymore? As the answer might be the repeated experience of the PCE, can you go into what inclined your mind in that direction? These answers might be enlightening.

Owen: "I don't believe the 8th stage on the map is possible while the self contraction continues to arise. In a PCE, there is basically no narrative thinking. So... hate to say it but what the AF folks are reporting might be the end of the lines in terms of developmental enlightenment. That's my working theory anyway."

For what it's worth, I think the 8th stage is possible while remaining a self, though I predict a 9th stage will follow, then a 10th, then an 11th...

"Could you go into why exactly you changed your mind about AF? Seems just two weeks ago you weren't set on it at all. Could you go into the arguments you used to have about not pursuing AF (perhaps that about love + compassion; perhaps those in your podcast with Nick; and any others) and go into why those don't apply anymore? As the answer might be the repeated experience of the PCE, can you go into what inclined your mind in that direction? These answers might be enlightening.

Owen: "I don't believe the 8th stage on the map is possible while the self contraction continues to arise. In a PCE, there is basically no narrative thinking. So... hate to say it but what the AF folks are reporting might be the end of the lines in terms of developmental enlightenment. That's my working theory anyway."

For what it's worth, I think the 8th stage is possible while remaining a self, though I predict a 9th stage will follow, then a 10th, then an 11th..."

I can go into it and in fact I will. Expect a second podcast on this topic.
But I really don't want to have an AF debate on my practice thread, so... I'm not gonna.