Owen's Practice Journal, Part II

"... there must be some kind of reinforcement for the habit of narrative thinking to become so entrenched."

I have an idea about this that I've been toying with for some time now. There is a process that develops in toddlers called "verbal mediation", where they naturally start talking to themselves as they do things. It can sound like babbling but it has a purpose, which is to help the kid to organize and understand their experience. My guess is that the early verbal meditation develops into this narrative thinking as we age, and it sticks around and gets stronger. What is reinforcing it is that it was once so damn effective in helping us to get organized, learn stuff and solve problems. But eventually it has served it's purpose and we're left with it constantly in the "on" position. The narrative self might be akin to a psychological appendix. It served an important purpose at one time, but now we are just carrying it around and it gets in the way of further growth.

I am just starting this practice, inspired by you guys - please keep posting!

"I have an idea about this that I've been toying with for some time now. There is a process that develops in toddlers called "verbal mediation", where they naturally start talking to themselves as they do things. It can sound like babbling but it has a purpose, which is to help the kid to organize and understand their experience. My guess is that the early verbal meditation develops into this narrative thinking as we age, and it sticks around and gets stronger. What is reinforcing it is that it was once so damn effective in helping us to get organized, learn stuff and solve problems. But eventually it has served it's purpose and we're left with it constantly in the "on" position. The narrative self might be akin to a psychological appendix. It served an important purpose at one time, but now we are just carrying it around and it gets in the way of further growth.

I am just starting this practice, inspired by you guys - please keep posting!"

Kenneth and I have talked a bit about how the process of disembedding (transcending) via insight mirrors in reverse the stages of childhood development.

If we take in terms of disembedding (in the 8 stage model) like so:

5th stage: cognitive
6th stage: emotional
7th stage: self-referential
8th stage: narrative

would there be any other established stages in childhood development models (I'm most familiar with Piaget's) that we could associate?

"Kenneth, can you please give specific examples as to how to cultivate bliss or the Brahma Viharas as body states? This is really interesting." -Owen

My favorite practice is what I call Mahamudra noting. I listen for the ships in a distant harbor, understanding that I will not hear them. This is similar to looking at the essential nature of mind, which cannot be seen. Turning toward an infinite object allows the mind to be infinitely receptive. The primary object here is "listening," so I return to this periodically throughout the exercise. I notice and note openness, receptivity, smoothness, and stillness. When tension arises, I notice and note release instead of tension. This leads to joy, which I note. Often, there will be gratitude, well-being, and peace. I note an overflowing sense of metta and sympathetic joy. I note silence, bliss, ecstasy, and quiet. Equanimity arises and is noted. Return to listening. More openness, receptivity and smoothness. Tension is transmuted to release, acceptance, and surrender. A tear in the eye or a lump in the throat are noted not as sadness, but as compassion; noticing the pain that arises in the body when I reflect upon the suffering of all sentient beings, I feel compassion for myself and all living beings.

This exercise cultivates wholesome mind states, so I am deliberately employing a double standard; body states of joy and bliss are noted as such, while body states of irritation or sadness are transmuted into release or compassion. The Mahamudra noting of "listening" is key as it opens the mind to the infinite. Notice that there are body states, but no mind states per se; there is no mind to have a state. There are just phenomena arising and passing against an unshakeable background of awareness. This does not change by nature of the fact that it does not exist and therefore cannot be seen.

May all beings be happy. May all beings awaken in this lifetime.

"The narrative self might be akin to a psychological appendix. It served an important purpose at one time, but now we are just carrying it around and it gets in the way of further growth." -RonCrouch

A psychological appendix! I love it.

"Kenneth and I have talked a bit about how the process of disembedding (transcending) via insight mirrors in reverse the stages of childhood development.

If we take in terms of disembedding (in the 8 stage model) like so:

5th stage: cognitive
6th stage: emotional
7th stage: self-referential
8th stage: narrative

would there be any other established stages in childhood development models (I'm most familiar with Piaget's) that we could associate?"

If we think of the 6th, 7th, and 8th stages (emotional, proprioceptive self-referencing, and narrative, respectively) as discreet subsystems of selfing, we can see the 5th stage as a kind of meta system that encompasses those other three.

At the attainment of the 5th stage, it finally becomes possible to see each of the other three as discreet subsystems. This in turn allows us to more directly target each one in turn. This is why the 5th stage yogi can say "I know that anger arises, but it is not happening to anyone." Upon seeing through the mirage of mind states, however (6th stage), the anger simply doesn't arise the way it did before; body is seen as body and ideas and mental impressions are seen as they are. There is no longer this extra thing, this compound quasi-entity called an emotion.

(As always, it's important to remind everyone that you will never see through the mirage of anger by denying your anger. The way to find out the truth about mind states is precisely by *noting mind states* (!) as accurately, honestly, and courageously as you can. Beginning and intermediate yogis, please do not jump the gun and decide that you don't want to have emotions any more. This will just mess you up. In fact, nothing goes away at the 6th stage except a misperception; the body still reacts to the world around you, very much as it always has. You just no longer identify those body states as "I".)

"Upon seeing through the mirage of mind states, however (6th stage), the anger simply doesn't arise the way it did before; body is seen as body and ideas and mental impressions are seen as they are. There is no longer this extra thing, this compound quasi-entity called an emotion.

(As always, it's important to remind everyone that you will never see through the mirage of anger by denying your anger. The way to find out the truth about mind states is precisely by *noting mind states* (!) as accurately, honestly, and courageously as you can. Beginning and intermediate yogis, please do not jump the gun and decide that you don't want to have emotions any more. This will just mess you up. In fact, nothing goes away at the 6th stage except a misperception; the body still reacts to the world around you, very much as it always has. You just no longer identify those body states as "I".)"

Ok, that syncs with my experience so far. What seems to be disappearing for me is a self replicating interference pattern (mirage) created by the habitual merging of mind states and body sensations. This interference pattern sets off a cascade of both mind and body states in which (pre 5th) I was embedded and (pre 6th) I could not clearly perceive.

The ending of this particular cascade sequence is marked by a sharp decrease in emotional pain and a highly predictable mind state.

So, my current question is why is affect (body sensation) arising at all? There is still some baseline affect that appears to come from the habitual and very primitive mis-perception of "something happening to somebody". It's not coming from a mind state or though pattern. It's what seems to be beneath them. This is what I'm really curious about.

"Get distracted from the present moment as it is by the supposed reality of thoughts."

oh got it, makes sense. was looking at it backwards =P.

"So, my current question is why is affect (body sensation) arising at all? There is still some baseline affect that appears to come from the habitual and very primitive mis-perception of "something happening to somebody". It's not coming from a mind state or though pattern. It's what seems to be beneath them. This is what I'm really curious about. " -Owen

Well, we can speculate. How do you know when you are in danger except for the body sensation? How do you know when you have to go to the bathroom? How do you know not to get too close to a cliff?

These are very deep responses, presumably essential to our survival and/or normal functioning, way down in the reptile brain. Can we unhook them? Some people say yes. Other people might ask, "why would you want to, especially when you can be happy and free without doing so?" My own message is that unconditional happiness is what enlightenment is all about. The body reacting to a full bladder or a threatening situation is just another opportunity to be free.

I recently read about a woman whose amygdala was destroyed and therefore could not experience fear even at the physical level. From the article:

[Although] "due to the amygdala damage the woman is 'immune to the devastating effects of posttraumatic stress disorder...'"

"there are tradeoffs, such as an inability to detect and avoid threatening situations, [which] likely contributed to the frequency with which she's had life-threatening run-ins, the researchers suggest."

www.livescience.com/9125-woman-fear-intrigues-scientists.html

Owen, I also write software, and as I've really focused deeply on a project in the last week, I've seen all of my momentum of awareness evaporate as its replaced by momentum on problem solving and design. I am clearly experiencing how one moment conditions the next. How do you organize your day or how do you balance your software work with awareness? Or has something else shifted where you are able to hold your software work within awareness?

For me I associate coding with being fully and obsessively absorbed in that process with no space for awareness to arise.

"It seems to be (working theory) that it enables me to create a virtual world, one into which I can escape when aversion to the present moment become too strong - or when a pleasurable moment is ending and I want it to remain."

This is great stuff. I'd also add that perhaps there also simply a strong hardwired propensity toward planning as we uniquely evolved advanced planning and simulation capabilities that allowed us to model our world and manipulate that model in our minds. We seem hardwired to constantly be moving away from the present moment into the virtual modeler so that we can attempt to improve our chances at survival and reproduction.

I always come back to the statement: "The more complicated your story, the less likely it is to be true." and the present moment is the most uncomplicated story I can find.

"What is reinforcing it is that it was once so damn effective in helping us to get organized, learn stuff and solve problems. But eventually it has served it's purpose and we're left with it constantly in the "on" position. The narrative self might be akin to a psychological appendix. It served an important purpose at one time, but now we are just carrying it around and it gets in the way of further growth.
"

This reminds me of an interesting small book, "The Practicing Mind". It talks about a way that we can model, plan, and act while still being in the present. Basically we take some time to set some goal rather than the steps to achieve that goal, simply the directionality that we need to head in. Then in each moment, we simply resolve to practice. If we practice according to the directionality, then the goal is likely to naturally unfold.

I think this is the more mature level of what the narrative self was previously working so damned hard to try to accomplish.

"Owen, I also write software, and as I've really focused deeply on a project in the last week, I've seen all of my momentum of awareness evaporate as its replaced by momentum on problem solving and design. I am clearly experiencing how one moment conditions the next. How do you organize your day or how do you balance your software work with awareness? Or has something else shifted where you are able to hold your software work within awareness?

For me I associate coding with being fully and obsessively absorbed in that process with no space for awareness to arise."

Ahh, emacs samadhi. I know it well.

What I typically do these days is to notice while I'm working that my responses (what to type next, what to do) are just as causal as anything else. They arise in response to input. While I'm at the machine I am, in essence, part of the system. If I can catch that and get fascinated by it, in general I'm fine.

Otherwise, I treat it like a hard jhana. When I get totally absorbed in what I'm doing, it's all good. The pitfall is that, at least previously, I wasn't totally focused. Usually there were a set of thought I was embedded in and when I got up to do something else it felt like my body had just been put through the wringer. Basically, I got my ass kicked by a bunch of thoughts I wasn't aware of. The acid test is, "how does my body feel?" when it's finished. This is relaxed effort, which IMHO is right effort.

The other trick is to see if you can maintain a thread of attention on the way your hands move at the keyboard. If I can notice that, I can usually mindful of the other three foundations.

Hope that helps.

"Otherwise, I treat it like a hard jhana. When I get totally absorbed in what I'm doing, it's all good. The pitfall is that, at least previously, I wasn't totally focused. Usually there were a set of thought I was embedded in and when I got up to do something else it felt like my body had just been put through the wringer. Basically, I got my ass kicked by a bunch of thoughts I wasn't aware of. The acid test is, "how does my body feel?" when it's finished. This is relaxed effort, which IMHO is right effort.
"

Thats awesome thanks. I can definitely feel when I'm not "purely" concentrated and then I just keep pushing harder and harder and getting stuck in more discursive thought loops. Seems like I just need to hit the circuit breakers sooner and fully come back to awareness and recharge if necessary before attempting to dive in again.

Some interesting phenomena over the last few days. As I'm leaving work or about to, I'm finding myself going into very hard and prolonged PCEs that can last anywhere from 2-5 hours. My intent is not to cultivate them, they seem to happen spontaneously, somewhat involuntarily. I don't know if this is a side effect of all the constant grounding + the attempt at braking the narrative thought cycles, but it might be. My sense of self is getting very thin when not in PCE. The amount of self'ed phenomena is dropping off precipitously. At this point I don't believe I have much choice in what happens next, not that I mind. No sense getting all drama queen about it. I think I'm going to spend some time re-reading the Bernadette Roberts books.

In related news:

www.smbc-comics.com/?db=comics&id=747#comic

For the last few days I have spent around 50% of my waking time in either PCE or EE mode - frankly it's getting hard to tell. I think this is probably a side-effect of grounding thoughts (which are now mostly perceived as energy movements) using the lightning rod technique. This has led me to make a couple of tentative conclusions:

1. The "selfing" that occurs post 4th path (technical model) distorts perception just as much if not more as the thought-body sensation emotional glomming. The perspective these days is that "selfing" is happening to a mind and body that are arising dependently based on causes and conditions, rather than the world is happening to a "self" that is known to be illusory.

2. There is a bit of a vajrayana feel to things. Instead of merging with a deity, it is as if my "self" is now willing to merge with the world to such a degree that individual self-reference becomes impossible. I'm now noticing how many internal mental processes are there strictly to support the individual identity and how fracking painful they are. Given that these thoughts are read by the body as pain, they are instantly dropped.

I keep thinking of the following lines from Shankara:

The world is an illusion
Brahman alone is real
Brahman is the world

(cont)

(cont from above)

Interestingly enough, this seems to line up a bit with the 3 speed transmission.

The world is an illusion:
debunk the perception of a solid reality systematically via vipassana and the progress of insight.

Braman alone is real:
The big (technical model) 4th path moment equalizing of phenomena, including the self-contraction. Things get non-sticky. Suffering is happening, just not to anyone in particular.

Brahman is the world:
As a result of living with a mind sans-center point long enough, the emotional and perceptual subsystems get cleaned out. Surrender to things as they are becomes - rather than intermittent, the default mode of perception. And if we actually believe what the Buddha said, the way things are do _not_ include a separate self, so eventually, this process reduces then removes the "selfing" that is the fundamental problem.

Reference:
www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.089.than.html
and the 10 fetters model abandoning of conceit.

Anyhow, just a few ideas. Hope they are helpful.

(edit: Braman alone is real typo)

You keep blowing my mind, and inspiring, and motivating me. Thanks.
Also thanks for the description of the fMRI test, looking forward to part 2.

So, the PCE seems a natural step on the path? Sorry, if this is obvious, but this stuff is getting pretty far over my head,

"You keep blowing my mind, and inspiring, and motivating me. Thanks.
Also thanks for the description of the fMRI test, looking forward to part 2.

So, the PCE seems a natural step on the path? Sorry, if this is obvious, but this stuff is getting pretty far over my head, "

Thanks for the kind words Rev.

The PCE seems natural to me at this point in my practice. I haven't been cultivating them so much as they appear more frequently as I do the lightning rod. I don't know how useful they are pre 4th path.

Also, a decent description of the challenges involved in stage 6:



Funny and true...

The PCE seems to be cropping up more regularly in daily life for me too lately, it's really interesting to hear you going into more detail with this and, in particular how you're lining it up within the 3 speed transmission.

pragmatic dharma at its finest

Interesting development. I've been racking my brain a bit trying to figure out why investigating internal phenomena got so difficult lately. Seems there isn't any. There are sensation in the body, there are thoughts... however the sense of an "internal life" is going away. This is playing havoc with my memory and there is some disorientation, but I'm not going to make a big deal out of it.

I keep thinking about Dogen's comment:

"To study the Way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be enlightened by all things of the universe. To be enlightened by all things of the universe is to cast off the body and mind of the self as well as those of others. Even the traces of enlightenment are wiped out, and life with traceless enlightenment goes on forever and ever."

"Interesting development. I've been racking my brain a bit trying to figure out why investigating internal phenomena got so difficult lately. Seems there isn't any. There are sensation in the body, there are thoughts... however the sense of an "internal life" is going away. This is playing havoc with my memory and there is some disorientation, but I'm not going to make a big deal out of it.

"

Interesting... I recall Adyashanti, in "The End of Your World", noting that advanced yogis often describe experiencing Alzheimer-like symptoms. It passes, but could be alarming if one was not aware of it happening to others. Another good reason why meditation should be a team sport.

"Interesting... I recall Adyashanti, in "The End of Your World", noting that advanced yogis often describe experiencing Alzheimer-like symptoms. It passes, but could be alarming if one was not aware of it happening to others. Another good reason why meditation should be a team sport."

Oh, yeah. I remember reading that now. Thanks.
It's strange when everything collapses into an unending now. At least I have google calendar.