Laurel III

50 min session, beginning with breath counting, then slow noting, then open awareness. Felt very mellow, about half an hour in got mild kriyas following a couple of itches, some vibrations. Everything felt really muted and imprecise. Not much pain, not much itching, not much of anything but, as I said, mellow stuff. Thoughts drifted in and out. May have gotten hypnogogic from time to time, but just a little. A mild restlessness toward the end.

An unpleasant 45 min sit this morning, not extremely so, but annoying. I just kept wanting to get up and walk away from it. It seemed to go on and on and on. There were some kriyas, some itches, some buzzing vibratory feelings. Sometimes I feel like I'm stuck in the first 3 nanas, going from Mind & Body to Cause & Effect to 3 C's, but I don't really know. I got sleepy a few times as well, but not to the point where I was lost in it. All of which is kind of interesting in itself.

Had a 30 min session worthy of a beginner. It was plagued throughout by nasal congestion; I breathed through my mouth most of the time, but never got concentrated, kept fending off sneezes and the need to blow my nose. Not sure what the strategy is in a case like this. I've worked with coughing, which is not easy, but not quite so much the nose stuff. Now that I'm not sitting any more more nose is breathing just fine. Then again, if I tried to concentrate it might just start acting up again!

I'm really starting to get serious again. Meditated for half an hour with a group yesterday, did noting and open awareness, seemed to be moving from first to third nana again. A nice mellow feeling at first, then more "noise" and finally itches coming into the fore. Later did 40 minutes at home, decided to focus on jhana. Made it to first just as the timer went off, which left me smiling at the end. The mood on getting up was happy and light. I really have slipped a lot since last summer's retreat because of sporadic practice. Annoyance with piddling things was starting to infiltrate my day, and lots of problems concentrating.

Woke up at around 1:00 last night and spent about an hour and a half doing breath counting in bed rather than getting up and/or reading. It's hard to know how much of that time was passed in sleep. It was a good tactic, and I'm glad I did it. There were some monster itches manifesting, lots of restlessness, but I persevered.

This morning: 30 min, breath counting and working on getting strong access concentration before moving on to noting. Dropped the noting after awhile and practiced open awareness. Had a pattern that I've had in the past of dream imagery alternating with gentle vibrations. The sit seemed to drag on forever, so I'd label that a bit of restlessness.

Working on mindfulness and 2nd gear practice during the day wherever and whenever I can.

Laurel - forgive me for my ignorance - but are you second path now (I do recall you getting first)?

All the best!

Yes; I got second path on July 4 (easy to remember). I've been confused ever since.

Great. Yeah - I was pretty sure you did.

In any case, at that point in my practice - I switched my emphasis from insight cycles (there were a heck of a lot of those during the this stage for me) to working with Jhanas. I had the goal of unlocking the pure land jhanas and also to hit Nirodha (whichever came first) so I could claim 3rd path.

The main practice for me at that point was using the witness to ride the jhanic arc.

Could you give me a basic rundown on how to do that? Or point me somewhere? Thanks.

Of Course:

So first off we want to get a grasp of the 20 major strata of mind that Kenneth lays out.

So you'll want to review these two pages as well as the youtube video below:
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/Dyna...hana+vs+Static+Jhana
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/20+Major+Strata+of+Mind (you will be trying to unlock all of these strata at this phase of your development)


As to the practice itself these links should help:
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/The+...d+and+the+Jhanic+Arc
thehamiltonproject.blogspot.ca/2011/01/y...-jhanic-arc-via.html
www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/05/the-jhanic...rainbow-of-the-mind/

Next I recommend going through this case study in detail. In it Kenneth speaks about how to access the rupa and arupa jhanas, then he explains how to use the 6th jhana to identify the witness and then how to use the witness to ride the jhanic arc.

Kenneth also explains how, if you don't see the jhanas develop, it may be because you are developing a new insight cycle, and how you can do that via 2nd gear as well.

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/Case+Study%3A+Alex

That should pretty much cover it.

Good luck. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Excellent. You may also want to review your Third Path thread kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/4975774/Third+Path

"Excellent. You may also want to review your Third Path thread kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/4975774/Third+Path "

Haha--this practice has evidently not done a whole lot for my memory

Thanks, guys. Ready to get cracking.

I agree with jayson. I almost stopped noting completely after 2nd unless I was having very sleepy sits. When I would cycle around again each time the jhana's got stronger until finally one day I dipped into NS. It seemed like I was flailing around at the time and it came out of nowhere. PL jhana's came after that shortly. Now after all that I seem bored with jhana's, not sure why.

Okay, putting in more cushion time. Spent 40 min this afternoon, went up and down the jhanic arc (1 to something that I think was probably twice. Got more vivid on the second go. In general, I felt a stronger focus even than what I had on retreat, oddly enough (seeing as focus has been a problem for me all this fall). Used the witness as an anchor.

During the day I've been doing 2nd gear practice a lot. Probably helped with the jhana practice. I reviewed everything, including Nadav's advice on my 3rd path thread. It's not just a question of having forgotten, it's more that I don't think I was ready to understand what he was talking about earlier. Anyway, we'll see how this goes.

Awesome. So, the idea is to just keep doing that until things get clearer and clearer and then eventually you'll probably notice some stuff happening after 8 that will get more and more clear as you do it.

That's all it takes. Of course if nothing seems to happen when you try to ride the arc, chalk it up to another insight cycle and note or whatever.... (if you can't do 2nd gear, downshift to first).

Tried to sit for 45 minutes this morning, gave up after 30. What a wimp! I made it up and down the jhanic arc once, but was sleepy through part of it and just sat there after I came down again thinking, I don't have the energy to do that again. I should at least have run out the clock with some noting or something. Oh well, I'll have better discipline next time.

Been rereading a few threads of other people, trying to get a sense of how this works (thanks for your practice, Russell). I'm vaguely confused about one thing: when I practiced jhanas before I'd focus on the tip of the nostrils, get access, and then cultivate a pleasurable feeling (in my case, at the heart center), which would take me into first jhana. Now I'm kind of floating between the witness and the anapanasati. Kenneth talks about locating the witness with the 6th jhana. I seem to have located it and am able to stay with it just fine (having gotten to 6th jhana over the summer probably has helped with this). So: does it matter what I'm using to get up and down the arc? When I stay with the witness, things kind of move on their own, although I give them a bit of a nudge (taking a deeper breath and thinking, ":5th" or whatever). Should I let go of the nudging and just watch?

Thanks, everyone.

Laurel - I'd suggest doing a bit of anapanasati at first to get a somewhat concentrated then stick with the witness and let things just move on their own.

Also, have a look again at the static vs. dynamic jhana link on this site. The idea is to simply be moving up and down through all the layers. You really don't need to be too concerned with absorption at this point.

Of course, the key thing is simply working up and down the arc, if you can do it with something else like the breath that's cool too. The point of using the witness is that it's there in all the jhanas so it's something you can hold onto and then watch the jhanas develop in sequence while remaining uninvolved.

Check this out:
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/33...e+of+the+Thermometer

Also, some sits you'll be seeing nanas instead of jhanas. Sometimes you'll get fruitions instead of a continuous sequence up and down.

Thanks for this advice, Jayson. I am thinking that this morning I probably overdid the trying too hard approach. I was wanting to zero in on each jhana and work my way up the arc point by point just to prove I could do it. I am now going to do the practice as you suggest.

I've been enjoying a thread over on DhO about "hard" jhana and have started thinking I'd like to try it, but if I do, I have to acknowledge to myself that it is different from the practice outlined here. It is probably a digression at this point, though. The objective is to make progress in third path.

Yeah, you have to be on the lookout. I tried it earlier, just as a refresher and so I'd kind of be on the same page as you. I made it up and down the arc once, went up again and had a fruition at some point. After that I sort of lost track of where I was. I found it kind of hard to lock onto the witness again for a bit but eventually got into it again. It seemed like I was back near 1st jhana territory then I was able to see I was actually moving very slowly back up through nanas. It took a while to get from three characteristics and into a&p territory then it took a good long while to go through all the dukkha nanas and back into equanimity. Equanimity was really neat this time as it really showed it's various sub stages and there were some near misses for fruitions. I never made it past that before getting up.

The neat thing was seeing all these different things while only sticking with the witness.

Regarding hard jhanas, it's kind of cool because with this technique you can actually stay at a particular jhana when you get to it if you know how. I think you can simple latch onto the handles for the jhana and get absorbed more and more into it. Kenneth actually showed me a trick using my eyes that allows you to stay and go into a jhana. You sort of look down and cross the eyes slightly. Doing it with eyes open, look down at your nose, then cross the eyes so the nose becomes two noses. That'll lock you into the jhana you are at.

Good luck!

If I may hijack Laurel's thread for a moment, since it sounds like she and I are in similar places and I am a total dunce at jhana.

- Are there reliable signposts within each jhana letting you know that's where you are? Kenneth suggests that counting 30 whole breath cycles (inhale and exhale = 1) is indicative of access concentration. Is there something like this for each jhana?

- How long should I be spending on this practice each day in order to get it going and sustain it?

- Is it helpful to do other practices alongside samatha, or is it better to focus on samatha alone (which is what I think Daniel Ingram says)?

- What happens when you "fall out" of jhana? Do you need to start the whole cycle again, from access concentration?

- Does it make a difference whether you concentrate on just one spot (the nostrils, the belly, the upper lip) or take the whole body breathing?

Dear Andy --

If you are post-second path it's better to really concentrate on jhana practice as it seems to be more fruitful.

Jhanas are distinguishable from each other by "feel" so you have to do them and figure this out for yourself. No one can describe it to you because it's like describing color or taste. It is what it is -- it is an experience.

If you are new to this then just focus on this for a while until you grok it.

If you "fall out" of jhanas just get back in - you'll figure this part out as you go along, too.

Finally, you can concentrate on anything, but LIGHTLY. Don't be laser-pointing your mind at anything, you'll just get headaches that way

Okay, so I spent 30 minutes just now on using the witness to ride the jhanic arc. It took a few rounds of counting breaths to get settled; I was thinking, man this is taking a long time and I'm distracted by thoughts, and then all of a sudden I noticed that things had clicked into place. So I shifted to the witness.

I have no idea what the h*ll happened. There was tingling and piti energy, and I started calling out the jhanas to myself, but then I thought, I don't want to be scripting this, so I sat back and watched. As I said, I don't know where I went or what I did when I got there, but I seem to have met a lot of interesting people along the way. At one point an 8-year-old girl kind of snuggled up to me as I was walking through a door, as if she wanted my protection. Then a 20-something guy started showing off his martial arts skills. I guess I was in dreamland off and on. There were periods of lights flashing, then there were these soft-white globe-like lights that strobed at me, and then there were patches where the entire visual field was light. There were times when I felt I was at the bottom of a well (4th jhana?) but then I didn't want to inquire too deeply.

I guess I need practice. One thing I'm concerned or wavering about is how much to try to identify or even guide jhanas. I don't want to be sloppy, but I don't want to script myself either. That's it.

I'm getting confused now and need some help. What happens is I get settled (it seems I'm spinning in content for a couple of minutes and then suddenly lock in). Then I turn my focus to the witness. What happens next (at least in the past two sits) is a dream sequence. I am not actually sleeping, but I'm having dreams. I can't tell what to make of it. Sometimes I get a tingle here or there, sometimes I feel like I'm in a deep well (as in 4th jhana), sometimes I get a bit of heat or some vibrations, but on the whole I don't feel any of the usual markers of either jhanas or nanas, and certainly not in any recognizable order. I'm letting the dreams come and go and watching them but I'm getting confused and a bit frustrated. Should I be intervening, working on my tried-and-true techniques for accessing jhana? Should I cut the nonsense and start noting? Or should I just sit there and watch the show and wait for it to sort itself out? And above all, what the heck is this?

What makes you think you're not dreaming? Might you be having lucid dreams?

You could be in the middle of an insight cycle and that's why you're finding it sort of hard to figure out where you are at and things don't really seem to be going anywhere. Perhaps the witness is giving you new levels of relaxation due to the non-doing aspect of it, and your body is reacting to that with some hypnagogic imagery/dream images - preparing you for sleep. Perhaps it's an early stage of equanimity (4th jhana feel, images, sleepiness), if you stick with it and eventually get a fruition, then it'll start looking like one of the patterns you are expecting to see (review phase).

I'd say keep doing it, keep journaling and see if a pattern develops over time.

"Or should I just sit there and watch the show and wait for it to sort itself out?"
- this one

Make sure you are sticking with the witness throughout - if the mind gets absorbed in the dream content, but eventually comes back to the witness as object, then I think things are probably working as they should.