Laurel III

What does getting third path mean for you?

"Part of what's bugging me is a pattern where I'll make tremendous progress and then lose interest in continuing for awhile. It's like a backlash. I also don't seem to believe I'll ever make 3rd path."

You just described this part of the path perfecly. Cutting edge always seems to be different. Confusion and doubt set in. Sounds like you are doing just fine!

Thanks, Russell. Jim, I really don't know. A part of me is tempted to just say, look, I've done great, I've reduced suffering and I'm coping really well with life. Plus on retreat I got genuinely spooked, overwhelmed even, by the implications of Leigh's sessions on dependent origination, coming on top of the experiences I was having in meditation. A part of me rebelled and just wanted "my life" back (ha!). I wanted normal, everyday, dream-state, guy-behind-the-eyeballs kind of experience. And now I've got that and it isn't too painful.

But I know better, that's the whole thing. And knowing better, I think I'm going to push on. But my rhythm has been to take a rest here and there before doing that. So it's okay.

This sounds familiar to me, too. I've been here for quite a few months- I've long since lost the "fever" to "advance"; I still have experiences in meditation that validate the practice, but then I am left wondering what the heck I think there is to validate.

Life is good, improving even, and the practice seems to be an obvious part of that, so I don't want to stop. There's still some kind of thirst for "something more", but I no longer have a clue how to get it, and often doubt that there really IS something more, and then I wonder if exactly that is the lesson I am supposed to understand.

I would make a "push" if I could find something to push against.. So I just press on, content that I am still motivated to practice. In the meantime, enjoying life doesn't seem like a bad option, especially since there doesn't seem to be anything else I can "do".

Is that sorta what you are talking about ?

Yes; it sounds very familiar. My anxiety is still around, but it is much lower level voltage than before, and it's not as chronic. When it comes along I can look at it and see that it is not "me." I don't sleep well, but I have an acupuncturist who is working on that with me. Then there's the chronic pain, but I'm in physical therapy, and I'm not overwhelmed by it. I'm keeping up well at work. In short, my issues aren't as pressing to me. Things aren't particularly wonderful, but they aren't bad either; they're actually reasonably good. My son is happy in his new school, my husband is fine, my mother is fine.

However, I know that there is something more, or rather, something other, that this isn't it. I have a feeling that in both our cases, if we get complacent, the universe will eventually give us a nudge of some kind. So I'll do my best to keep practicing, whatever happens.

Laurel, you are experiencing the great hall of mirrors that second path can become. Relax! It's progress, and progress will come. Whether you want it to come or not, it will come. You are at a point at which you cannot stop the flow of it, anyway, so keep sitting regularly but don't put so much pressure on yourself, don't exercise so many judgments, just be with the practice and remember that what is happening IS progress, no matter what it feels like.

Metta!

Thanks, Chris. Strangely enough, I sat with a group for half an hour last evening and went up and down the jhanic arc (didn't try for 8, but got to 7). I even had some time to spare for open awareness afterwards. I felt enormously refreshed when it was over. This morning I went up to 4 and back, and sat with my 5 contemplations. After awhile I noticed myself wanting to quit, thinking I'd done "enough." This suggests that I'm gently resisting deeper insights. I just kept sitting with it until the timer went off. Felt great afterwards.

I am allowing myself to be reassured that this process is indeed unfolding. I'm curious to see what's ahead.

Sounds really good Laurel. Here's a stray thought - why are you backing out of jhanas before switching to insight. Couldn't you just switch to insight and allow the (possible) decay of jhana to be part of insight?

Interesting question. The short answer is I'm doing what Leigh told me to do. A longer response would be that I tend to be so out of it when I'm in a jhana that I'm not sure how to switch to insight. Actually, a big dilemma for me is wondering how long to stay in any jhana before moving on to the next or coming back out again and going down the sequence to access with the intent of beginning insight. So I'll be sitting in, say, 2nd jhana, and my witness will be thinking, okay, so have I been here long enough? And should I continue, or back out again? I'm hoping I can get more skilled with letting things evolve naturally in the future.

Practice is Intermittent and not particularly satisfying. I feel as if I'm a beginning all over again. Either I'm dealing with distractions, or else I'm sleepy. My daily life is much too packed this semester; I keep telling myself that it will ease up in a couple of months. This pace is difficult to maintain. But interestingly enough, my suffering over it is vastly reduced. I hardly feel anything but content most of the time, even when I'm tired or in pain.

Don't underestimate how much true "practice" still happens, at this point, when you throw yourself into life with a commitment to stay mindful.

I had a project a while ago that kept me off the cushion most days for a couple of months. It was very valuable to do this accompanied by practices that encourage constant presence (like Ships In The Harbour, or even a simple determination to *listen* here and now). I learned a lot about detaching the idea of "practice" from the idea of "sitting"... a de-coupling which HAS to happen sometime, in order for us to carry this job forward. Why not now ?

"I learned a lot about detaching the idea of "practice" from the idea of "sitting"... a de-coupling which HAS to happen sometime, in order for us to carry this job forward. Why not now ?" -Rob_Mtl

Fantastic insight, Rob, and well stated. Intermediate and advanced practice depend on blurring the line between formal and informal practice, until there is just practice. Practice is life. Life is presence.

All of which is not to say that formal practice becomes unnecessary. In fact, there seems to be a tight correlation between formal practice and daily well-being, even for the most advanced practitioners. Keeping a regular daily practice helps build the momentum that enables all-day-long presence. And vice-versa. Ultimately, our daily well-being depends on turning the activity of being present with our experience into a lifestyle. From that point of view, awakening isn't something we have done, but something we are doing. We are being present moment by moment, all day long. It's very much like physical fitness; you can learn skills, and that is something you will always have to some extent, but if you don't exercise, atrophy comes quickly. It's a use it or lose it proposition.

"My daily life is much too packed this semester; I keep telling myself that it will ease up in a couple of months. This pace is difficult to maintain. But interestingly enough, my suffering over it is vastly reduced. I hardly feel anything but content most of the time, even when I'm tired or in pain." -Laurel

Wow. What a wonderful testimonial for meditation and awakening.

Thanks, everyone! I am overwhelmed by the contrast between my state of mind right now and this time last year. I would never have believed it could have been possible.

I also agree wholeheartedly that there is still lots of practice opportunity during the day, even without a lot of sitting. Plus I've realized something else: this past week I've been taking a medication for my asthma; one of the side effects is a difficulty with concentration and attention. I feel hyped up as if on caffeine, or else tired a lot of the time. I think this is all too likely contributing to the on-cushion problems with even getting much access concentration. I'll report back in another week when the drug has worn off. By then I am determined to have reestablished a sitting routine.

" I am overwhelmed by the contrast between my state of mind right now and this time last year. I would never have believed it could have been possible."

Thank you for that..!

"Thanks, everyone! I am overwhelmed by the contrast between my state of mind right now and this time last year. I would never have believed it could have been possible.

I also agree wholeheartedly that there is still lots of practice opportunity during the day, even without a lot of sitting. Plus I've realized something else: this past week I've been taking a medication for my asthma; one of the side effects is a difficulty with concentration and attention. I feel hyped up as if on caffeine, or else tired a lot of the time. I think this is all too likely contributing to the on-cushion problems with even getting much access concentration. I'll report back in another week when the drug has worn off. By then I am determined to have reestablished a sitting routine."

Hi, Laurel,
Perhaps you are already familiar with this, but what you are describing is a very common side effect of asthma medication. Hope it wears off soon and that you find some other med that fits you better!

I hope so too. It's prednisone, and I'm on it only for a week, tapering as I go. At this point I feel that I can't get rid of it fast enough.

Actually, though, I think I have recently cycled from equanimity to A&P, which I believe I hit last evening. I was in a state of mild euphoria, feeling as if nothing could touch me. Now this morning I've crashed a bit and am dragging around feeling sick and miserable, but watching that unfold against the background of this drug reaction. My faith in the practice is unshaken. I knew and continue to accept that cycling comes with the territory here, and it's not going to be all flow all the time. But I have more distance on the Dark Night now than the first time through. What a nightmare that was! This is nothing like it.

Practice this morning: got to access, may have gotten mild 1st jhana, then had a modestly focused session combining noting and open awareness. 35 minutes or so overall.

Another session in which I barely reached access. It's not the same as being a beginner, I've found. When I was just a beginner, I'd get lost in thought loops and have to pull myself out of it. Now I don't even have enough concentration for a thought loop; I get random stuff popping in and out. I switched to insight to follow along, and it was as if there was a wall between myself and any sense of samadhi. This is the reason for the 5th precept. Can't wait for the junk to wear off. May it be soon.

It's been over a month. A couple of things by way of an update: I've reduced my workload, which among other things means I actually can practice. I have resumed regular daily sittings, and am getting into jhana (not what I'd call hard jhana, but I'll take it), up to the fourth. My insight practice tends to alternate between dreamy imagery and mild vibrations. There's a bit of chatter in the mind as I get started, although I'm finally getting past it. There's lots of ear noise once I get settled, but the hammering heartbeat is barely there.

I know awhile ago I began a thread about third path. I'm going to have to go back and review it. Most of what I'm experiencing is confusion about it. The way is anything but clear. But daily life is improving.

"I know awhile ago I began a thread about third path. I'm going to have to go back and review it. Most of what I'm experiencing is confusion about it. The way is anything but clear. But daily life is improving."

Great to hear you are doing well Laurel. Go back and read parts of the linked threads on that Third Path post as well. Go ahead and read mine too while you are at it. I remember posting about constant confusion on almost a daily basis. Motivation to sit more will come back, but you will still be confused. It's the name of the game. Ron used a good term for me. It eventually turns from 'Confused' to 'Confused Urgency' because you will just want to be done with it all.

Thanks, Russell. Your unflinching forging ahead is inspiring.

30 min sit late yesterday afternoon; don't remember much. 45 min this morning, rather unpleasant. Began with jhana, got a mild first jhana and sat with that for a little while before switching to insight. Then I got hit with lots of sleepiness alternating with vibrations, but with kriyas thrown in and a feeling of unease in the body, some pain and itching, but mostly just a sense of draggy unpleasantness. I'm in the process of tapering codeine cough syrup, which I'd taken a couple of weeks ago to treat my bronchitis. I discovered when I stopped taking it that I'd developed a dependency. This is rather new; I've taken it in the past with no such effects on stopping. My toleration for prescription meds is weirdly altered.

I'm also experiencing lots of pain and inflammation during the day. I have no idea what that is all about. Irritability is up a bit, but the extreme emotional volatility is way down. Planning mind is big right now, but I catch it and disengage. Working on maintaining as much mindfulness as possible during the day. The most important thing, though, is that I have a twice a day routine for sitting again. That's good.

30 min yesterday late afternoon, beginning with focus on the breath, then moving to insight (noting alternating with open awareness) for the rest of the sit. I was feeling mellowed out and happy until a monster itch landed on the tip of my nose. Every time I would gently probe into it and it would recede, it came roaring back doubled in intensity. I finally gave up and scratched it, but we all know what good that does--as in, not. I finally sighed and settled in, and then the kriyas started. They weren't violent, just persistent. For most of the time I felt unpleasantness and a desire for it to be over. I sat through it. Didn't sit this morning due to exhaustion (up for about 3 hours in the night). Betawave, I really wish I could sleep for 10 hours, as you seem to have done a little while ago. And I know, I should have been meditating during those 3 hours. Will try to do that next time.

It's been a very difficult week--lots and lots of pain, tremendous difficulty sleeping, almost no possibility of any kind of schedule. I may have sat once or twice, don't know, but two nights ago at 4:00 a.m. went downstairs to my son's room, where there's an IKEA Poang chair and footstool (google it!), bundled up with a blanket, and meditated. The session alternated between gentle vibrations and sleepiness, and at one of the sleepy points I drifted off. Did the same thing last night at around midnight when I could not sleep and this time got hit with a formidible case of kriyas, jerking all over the place. I put up with this for a good long while (about 50 mins) and then got up and did walking meditation for about 20 minutes, after which I got back on the chair, had some mild kriyas. After awhile the gentle vibrations kicked in and I got to sleep.

So this is going to be my fallback method. The Poang chair fits me perfectly and aligns my spine just right. It's much better than trying to meditate in bed, where I find it impossible to get into a position and stay still. I am also going to work much, much more methodically at keeping mindful during the day. I got a bit carried away with election coverage. This is over now.

Election coverage is the most potent narcotic known to humankind. True fact