Tummo

In qi gong I was taught to contract the glutes only as an initial aid to finding the muscles around the perineum, because some people can't find them and if you contract the glutes it contracts the rest. But once it was clear, then the glutes are left relaxed. We also learned to contract the four sides of the perineum separately - the front, back, left and right sides. One can then just send energy up the right or left side, front or back of the body, for example (which actually works - I can make just my left side warm, or just my right side). Fake it til you make it.

"now if you get an interest in the real practice then call me xx

giragirasol - its ok I dont mind to share

but actually nobody taught me any "flying beps" just fall on your but type of beps, no big deal. "

@ Kiwi: Lol

@ AnthonyYeshe: It's just the PC-muscle not the glute (the one more down or let's say in between, not to the back google it: Pubococcygeus) Some people find it when they stop peeing. (just for completeness: there is also the "very violent" version of tummo in which they contract the feet, the legs, the glute and the arms as strong as possible, no reco from my side)

the usual instruction is to learn to separate the PC-muscle from the bottom.
and be also in everyday life aware not to contract the glute when its not necessary. let the pelvis swing while walking f.e.. we carry a lot of repression/adaptation in these muscles (like a dog who carries his/her tail between the legs)

After some time there might appear what is called the roams of beeing.

This feels as if you would hold your head into a different world.

It is said to depend also on which point you focused during Tummo, which roam you experience first. There are at all 10 possible points to let the energies enter the central channel, some:

* below the navel: this is the animal kingdom: very pleasant, no ego, no observer, no time, just beeing, just the senses, enjoying all bodily pleasures like food, dance, sex etc., humble

* heart: human roam, very hmmmm human in a positive sense like the smile of julia roberts, pure, sweet, in a spiritual way romantic, blissful, clear
* perineum: hungry ghosts, very connected and attracted to possible partners, powerful and action-oriented, loves to abandon, sense for power and the knowledge of how to change the physical world
* throat: semigods, expanded, no sensation for bodily limitations, spacious and deeply filled with the sense of life, feeling of a body as big as the planet or bigger
etc.

" It is said to depend also on which point you focused during Tummo, which roam you experience first. There are at all 10 possible points to let the energies enter the central channel, some:
"

Questions/ comments

1. Those points coincide with the chakras quite obviously. What about the other 6 if there aren't more chakras?

2. I've been practising for a month, for 30-40 minutes a day (Tsa Lung, Trulkhor and about 6 breath-retentions/tummo). Not much seems to be happening. Any ideas what's going on? should I try something different/add anything?

3. One thing I've noticed while holding my breath is that there is some (very annyoing) plhegm in my throat, which doesn't seem to appear during other times of the day. Is there any connection eith anything by any chance?

Thanks!

1. They are used to enter special roams or in consort practices to enter the body/the"energy-system" of the/or be the consort or to transfer consciousness (variation of phowa) or they are used to get certain effects in dreamyoga. I personally have a history in beeing an animal, especially a lion LOL it's surprisingly real, start with a bird I suggest

2. depends on where you are and if you like it. If there is already what is called an innate bliss staying, a very subtle unbelieveable natural bliss: LOOK DIRECTLY THROUGH IT. If not, try an hour a day of tummo-only, forget how long you can hold the breath, do tummo for an hour and follow where it leads you to. tibetans do the practice all day long, some exercises 1000s of times.

3. have not experienced that, some traditions recommend to swallow before the breathretention, especially in an exercise which is used to intensify heat (called the snow-lion) in which one covers all parts of the body that are associated in tibetan medicine with water-element (looks like a ball or an embryo, is also used while dying to dry the body). but i am going to much into esoteric details probably

"
2. depends on where you are and if you like it. If there is already what is called an innate bliss staying, a very subtle unbelieveable natural bliss: LOOK DIRECTLY THROUGH IT. If not, try an hour a day of tummo-only, forget how long you can hold the breath, do tummo for an hour and follow where it leads you to. tibetans do the practice all day long, some exercises 1000s of times.



"

Cool! I will do that and let you know how it goes in some time...

Also, I sent you a message with the dates I'll be in Austria, in case you're around. (it never lets me know I have a pm so I always find out two months later)

Thanks!

Here is another valuable tummo thread. Omega point seems to know his stuff even though he disagree with Loco on some point's among them the danger of long retentions. I'm approaching 160sec now towards the end of my 45 min sits and the length seems to be slowly and naturally increasing. My Intuition feel's like it's not a problem as long as I listen to my body.

www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discu...ards/message/3604496

Have had such a easy life and feel inside since i started regular tummo and have lost all interest in a fixed sitting routine outside of it. A bit funny, I don't feel any guilt like I used to when i slacked with practice earlier. Well maybe I'm not slacking exactly as I do my tummo

This is also interesting from omega. Maybe I wait too long between cycles? usually it ends up being around the same length for breaks as retentions.

"4. how many breaths should i take between rounds?

A few or transition into the rapid extreme-shallow breath example (the kundalini fire-breathing).
I practiced a lot in line with Samantabhadra & Vajrasattva (natural purity of mental consciousness/natural purity of the aggregate of consciousness) and practiced much heat yoga at the same time as the bliss practices (already had a seasoned knowledge of emptiness and fabricating experience). While generating blisses/other fabrications, I often would oscillate between the first tummo example, the fourth rapid shallow pseudobreathing tummo example, and simple non-practice (no movement of mind or body, save constant paced slow-breathing)."

"Omega point seems to know his stuff even though he disagree with Loco on some point's among them the danger of long retentions."

The reason why I'm careful with retention-time is that one can 1. damage the pulmonary alveoli 2. risk a stroke or 3. become unconscious by giving too much pressure. But it's true that it's possible to go further, even into a state where the urge to breath stops.

Hello KFD! Hello Loco! Thanks for the instructions. I'm really excited to have the possibility to practice Tummo. This thread was the reason for me to register on KFD  But I have a few questions, because some points aren't clear to me yet. At first a summary of how I understood your instructions. Somehow I think I didn't get it right yet.
1. Standing position plus mudra like you described.
2. Inhale into Chest 75% (pressure)
3. Pull the lower abdomen in (like if you close your nose and mouth and you inhale strongly)/or just put the belly in a little bit
4. Chin against chest, tonge against the roof of the mouth.
5. Contract the perineum(anal muscles + 'peeing' muscles) and the pelvic floor( www.mayoclinic.com/images/image_popup/w7_pelvicfloormuscles.jpg )
6. Focus on the perineum/ or spot on 4 fingers beyond the naves in front of the spine
7. Relax
8. Warmth?
9. 2 Shakings?
10. Silence?
11. Exhale and drop the the arms to the height of the pelvis
12. Let the body calm down and restart the cycle

My Questions:
2. There seems to be a pressure anyway, but it doesn't come from me, but from the filled lungs. Is that ok?
8. Is the warmth necessary, or am I doing it wrong if there isn't any warmth?
9. What do you mean by shaking? The body reaction, because of the aversion to hold the breath? Does it have to be 2 shakings? Can I also exhale after the first shaking?
10. Do you mean by silence the phase, in which the minds reaction to the breath-holding gets calmer? Can there still be an uncomfortable feeling or a defense feeling, while Silence, or isn't it silence, when one experiences such feelings?
When in the process do I have to fill the lungs to 100%? After the second shaking or before the first shaking?
Is my summary correct so far?

I would really appreciate some advice regarding these questions. I've read the thread but haven't got a clear picture yet and I have a really strong interest in tummo. And I don't want to start yet, because of these sentences of you and my half-full image of the technique:
'It's ok to get shaken off at the first, let's say, three trials, but then use your willpower to dive through and get into where you can feel that you have more space and the neurotic patterns are burned, where you overcome your flight instinct and get as a prize freedom. We are crossing a river, if you jump off at the first wave you will not land on the other side of the river, you will land in the river. This is the place of unwanted side-effects where you can get more problems than you had in the beginning (we talk about how to solve them later)'

Metta, Julian

(...continuation, see site 18)

... And do you know if I have to stop smoking for practicing Tummo?

Hey, here are my two cents. I've been practicing this stuff for a wee while now so it might help:


2. There seems to be a pressure anyway, but it doesn't come from me, but from the filled lungs. Is that ok?

Thats normal, as long as it isn't painful.

8. Is the warmth necessary, or am I doing it wrong if there isn't any warmth?

Maybe not at the first few times, but there will be warmth.

9. What do you mean by shaking? The body reaction, because of the aversion to hold the breath? Does it have to be 2 shakings? Can I also exhale after the first shaking?

Yes it is the body reaction, your diaphragm saying "hey you!". With 2 shakings I think Loco means a first a bunch of shaking, then peace. Then a second bunch of shaking. Then peace. So its sets of shakings, or waves of shakings.
You can exhale when you have to, please don't die. But push it until you can't hold it, and bit by bit you can push it for longer. Don't get passed the 2 minutes for safety. Also, you won't die, as far as I know you'd pass out but not die. Also don't be to rough or you might harm your lungs, but don't be affraid to push it a bit.

10. Do you mean by silence the phase, in which the minds reaction to the breath-holding gets calmer? Can there still be an uncomfortable feeling or a defense feeling, while Silence, or isn't it silence, when one experiences such feelings?

I think the exact process might be different for different people, don't get the shaking-peace motion exactly everytime. I'd say don't worry too much about it and keep on going and see what happens. In my experience of that silence for now, I can indeed observe mental crap arising, but it doesn't bother me, it just arises and does its thing, but don't worry about this, just do the technique.

When in the process do I have to fill the lungs to 100%? After the second shaking or before the first shaking?
Is my summary correct so far?

Don't inhale 100%, get it up to 75% roughly so you can adjust later the perssure of both sides (as Loco explained before about the pressure in both lungs). When the thing is shaking you don't need to inhale anymore or do nothing at all, just pay attention to the spot you chose and enjoy the ride as much you can until you have to breaht out.

As for smoking, I don't have a clue what effects it might have on tummo, but I don't think you need to quit. Your air retentions might be worse since pulmonar capacity is probably worse, but I don't think that matters too much. So you should quit, but not for tummo.

Keep us updated!

This thread is wonderful and I've already gained much from it! Thanks in particular to Loco! Such a blessing...

Loco hinted a couple of times about the sexual side of Tummo; definitely in the Tibetan books 'sexual yoga' is taught to be an extension of the practice of Tummo, capable of not only improving your own awareness of bliss+emptiness but also of initiating your partner into that feeling. Again, Loco mentioned in one of the earlier posts that when one is inside a woman the tip of one's penis plugs into one of the lower chakras of the woman-- and from there you can "reverse the flow of things". What does that mean? Is there a technique to it? What exactly am I supposed to be doing when in union?

If Loco or anyone else has any idea, I would be grateful for a reply! (what can I say?-- I'm a guy, so I have to think about these things )

This would be another thread but as sex is interesting, enlightened or not, I have an quick answer: if your breath retention is long enough the streams of energy along the spine turn their direction. it doesn't need athletic engagement. if you've overcome this first primitive or instinctive impulses to breath and are able to stay in silence, it has normally already happend. the typical sign is, that if you have an orgasm you feel fresher than before not tired or discharged. there is no loss of energy happening during sex. done together in union it should already change something.

start with this breathing:

1. in through the nose
2. out through the mouth
3. in through the mouth
4. out through the mouth
5. in through the mouth
6. out through the nose
7. in through the nose
8. out through the nose
goto 1.

then let me know when you have the feeling of having enough experience with it.

"10. Do you mean by silence the phase, in which the minds reaction to the breath-holding gets calmer? Can there still be an uncomfortable feeling or a defense feeling, while Silence, or isn't it silence, when one experiences such feelings?

I think the exact process might be different for different people, don't get the shaking-peace motion exactly everytime. I'd say don't worry too much about it and keep on going and see what happens. In my experience of that silence for now, I can indeed observe mental crap arising, but it doesn't bother me, it just arises and does its thing, but don't worry about this, just do the technique.

When in the process do I have to fill the lungs to 100%? After the second shaking or before the first shaking?
Is my summary correct so far?

Don't inhale 100%, get it up to 75% roughly so you can adjust later the perssure of both sides (as Loco explained before about the pressure in both lungs). When the thing is shaking you don't need to inhale anymore or do nothing at all, just pay attention to the spot you chose and enjoy the ride as much you can until you have to breaht out.

As for smoking, I don't have a clue what effects it might have on tummo, but I don't think you need to quit. Your air retentions might be worse since pulmonar capacity is probably worse, but I don't think that matters too much. So you should quit, but not for tummo.

Keep us updated!"

yep!