Tummo

"

2. Some people have a more unspectacular version and open the gates to death directly and radical (the aggression-types): to be continued"

Ha! That sounds interesting. And what's up with the body dissolving -- floor melting thingy Antero mentioned up thread?

Yeah, lets talk about Antero in the 3rd person ). (In the brackets how much I bet on it, remember they are not official text citations, just descriptions of me). It's very interesting to me because he has a lot of experience with other techniques and i am curious if he finds something similar in tummo. could be that its simply a new technique and everybody has to start from the beginning, could be that he is jumping.

The thing with him is that he is describing in his journal a state well known in psychology (first described by Wilhelm Reich) which has the funny side effects of something named orgasm-reflex, means if the organism is free of any tension a wave of sensation from time to time wanders up from the pelvis to the head. psychic tension is freely floating through the organism and unloads in microbursts or microshiverings in mimics or muscles. one can see that when one watches a baby sleeping in its face.

I hesitate to interpret the experience cause the only objective information I have is the time of breath retention and I don't want to influence the process, because there is nothing more disturbing when you enter a new level and it is interpreted in an older context. I would need to get into the practice and meet to tune in but I am just describing from my memories (I will maybe do tummo/snow melting around february with a dutch friend in Soho/NY, depends on private factors) So now, this is the entertainment section:

it could be the transforming of the solid element into water. it would have been preceded then by very powerful feelings like a mixture between rockstar and the calmness of a predator, tiger etc. (mastery of the earth element) and being followed by a very gentle open perception of the world, easy, sensual, flowing, feeling like a child, sensitive, innocent, loving to touch solid things like the earth (kids playing in the sand), walls and recognizing how they protect and support you, how the world and the ground carry you walking through them full of wonders in an uncomplicated, friendly and natural way. the liquid aspect of the world loves the solid because it gives hold and direction and lets it flow and snuggle into the flow. You will know from where the metaphor of jesus walking on water comes. (2 beers)

it could be what is called all-voidness, meaning internal and external void at the same time. internal void could maybe be related to arhatship in mctb/small vehicle where one experiences completely that the ego is not existing. therefore reality gets very important and people get realistic and down to earth and turn to their senses and sense perceptions. they are literally coming to their senses. (its what freud described as the person becoming an object of nature and an subject of its own history) the result is liberation from suffering.
the experience that the real environment is also empty is called external void, this is experienced not in an "as if" way but very factual und more difficult to achieve. the environment is included here into enlightenment and the experience of emptiness. the result is achieving the 6 liberating actions and freedom from suffering. to manifest external and internal void both at the same time is a high attainment. (1 beer)

it could also be his body is opening in direction of the 6 lokas. it disapears to get receptive to other fields of being. this feels like if one is entering a different country, or in diving when one enters a different temperature zone, a welcoming feeling and the a kind of direct transference of knowledge without thinking that everything in the world is alive and intelligent (also things) and then a change of viewpoint. in my case the first that appear was the animal kingdom, then the worlds of gods, then one of the not cold/not hot hells. animal kingdom first is often (could be brain chemistry), the rest i don't know. (1 box of beer)

It could be also the better known changes of body or the transference of consciousness into somebody else. i don't know anybody who has experience with this, works like this: if you let yourself fall into clear light totally and get unconscious kind of a sec before you wake up you can concentrate on somebody or a certain landscape to direct consciousness. you will only know that you've been disappeared/unconscious from reconstructing time afterwards, consciousness is switched off. you will have somebody elses life experience then, don't make me responsible for that one, i don't believe in rebirth at all ( btw this is not normal phowa). and i don't know how to get out (1 banana)

I will post a bit less in the next time, so if there is something very very important please ask.

"Loco,
This morning I did 25 minutes of Tummo starting from 80 second retentions and working my way up to 100 seconds. I did the last round for 120 seconds without much straining and something new took place during the last ten seconds. My whole body started to dissolve and the ground beneath me felt soft. I am sure that I was not losing my consciousness at that point yet. Some side effect perhaps?
"

Hi Antero, hope you are fine

It seems to me that you could be at a crossing. If you like change to the following exercise (at this level no tsa lung or anything else is necessary):

1. Do the tummo like you used to, but visualise with the inbreath a white light in the lowest chakra. Experience 2 qualities of the light: bliss and void. 10 breaths long, like charging the energy up in that chakra. Resting always a bit in the void and expand after one retention.

2. Then take the next higher chakra until you end at the crown. Always 10 breath retentions long for one chakra. Take specially care for the throat and the one 4 fingers below the navel.

3. If you are up at the crown you can go down again chakra per chakra, having the feeling of an overflowing waterfall, cascade or melting fluid dropping down in the next light, flowing down from chakra to chakra.

This is to change a bit the quality from cleaning/catharsis to overflow and enlightenment and create surplus. If you go simply in the direction of prolonging the breathretention you come more into the "magical" fields hinted to in the former posts.

This exercise is pretty close to the snowmelting thing you asked for.

Great info Loco and thanks for the instructions!

I am fine and so far no negative side effects . It feels like the energy that is accumulating in the body is flushing some garbage out of the system.

Today I tried sitting Tummo for the first time with my eyes closed. The first impression was that it is easier to hold the breath longer and there was less shaking than when standing and the mind was more inclined to absorbtion.

I started with 90 second rounds and did some 120 second rounds in a row.
The body got very warm and during the resting period I found that my mind was at first automatically drawn to 8th jhana and then to 1st Pure Land jhana. The urge to breathe was stronger at 60 s than at 120 s, so I could have still continued hold the breath for longer if I had wanted.

Once at 110 seconds the shaking turned into a feeling that I was suddenly spinning extremely fast and the sense of the body dissolved

I will definitely try to work with the technique that you described. Just a couple of questions:

@ #1: What do you mean by '10 breaths long'. The length of my normal breathing seems to be between 10-12 seconds, so would that make a retention of 100-120 seconds?

So when resting one is always absorbed in the void quality of the light and letting the attention expand? Sounds a bit like one of the Arupa jhanas, 5th perhaps?

@ #2: Are the instructions the same for all the chakras as described in #1?

@ #3: At what point is this visualization of a waterfall done? Does the basic visualization technique described in #1 change when coming down?

Would it be preferable to do this technique while sitting with the eyes closed as it is easier to get absorbed into the visualizations?

[EDITED TO ADD: What is the name of this exercise?)

Gratitude.

---Gratitude.
On my side. Interesting to hear your descriptions and associations.

---The urge to breathe was stronger at 60 s than at 120 s
If this persists it would be a sign of very fast progress. It might help now to imagine that you can get oxygen through the ears. One day your breath will stand still. It all becomes a very gentle practice then. I post more about it later.

---#1: I meant hold the breath as long as you are used to. And repeat this 10 times. the feeling of expansion balances a bit the contractions and leads the mind to what is called the white light (which also normal people can experience when they die)

---#2: yes, for all the same.

---#3: yes, in the sense that all chakras are already fully filled when you arrive at the top. you see then the whole system shining and stable. then you visualise the highest chakra melting and let light drop down along a very thin fiber (like a spiders) into the next lowest (to create a feeling for slow downward flowing energy). now this one overflows (waterfall) over into the next lowest. don't forget to fill the feet at the beginning and the end if you are sitting.

--- i don't close the eyes, but one probably could. i feel the weak points in the system better with open eyes.

--- The name is Nam-mkhai-ba which 'means cow of heavens' and points to the hindu technique ' gradually milking the nektar amrita from the cow of the heavens'. It is used to create what is called secret psychic heat (other than f.e. transcendental heat)

Hi,
Im now practicing about 25min of tummo and finding pleasant warmth noticable especially around the root chakra and throughout the body. I also find I feel energised by the practice and it really stills the mind so its good do do before my regular meditation.

I wonder if its possible to reach the higher stages without doing visualisations.

Many thanks
Andy

"Hi,
Im now practicing about 25min of tummo and finding pleasant warmth noticable especially around the root chakra and throughout the body. I also find I feel energised by the practice and it really stills the mind so its good do do before my regular meditation.

I wonder if its possible to reach the higher stages without doing visualisations.

Many thanks
Andy"

Hi,

There are 2 bodily signs that indicate the 1st step in progress (= energies entering the central channel):

1. The amount of air that goes through the left and the right nostrils is exactly the same

2. The pressure of inbreath and outbreath is the same. Normal people feel a kind of resistance (higher pressure) when they breath in and a lower pressure when they breath out (i think so, i don't remember it anymore ).

3. 1stperson: Things have a kind of enjoyable cleanness.

There were all kinds of variations of the practice invented which has to do with tibetan monastery politics and political power (the others are always making it wrong). if you got the signs 1 and 2 try it both with or without visualisation and report back what you think if you like.

(normally if the energies enter the central channel they have no other way to go than up and afterwards down, thats kind of the cool thing in this practice. this is why some people call it a technique with autopilot. it will show the way.)

Thanks again for your writing. I'll watch out for the signs you mentioned and when I get more skilled at the practice I'll experiment with adding in visualisations.

Best wishes
Andy

For those who like to practice the softcoreversion of tummo I called a friend yesterday who told me about a newer book with good description around the peaceful version.
you can download it here as a PDF: www.4shared.com/document/jz4Nva2a/Geshe_...yatso_-_Clear_L.html

It also has some (uncensored) infos about which entrypoint into the central channel leads to which results on page 32. some systems leave some points out to not include sexual development.
The entrypoints can be visualised as very small vacuols in the middle of the lights (but remember mahamudra is a objectless state, so visualisations can eventually lead away from it, if not done very subtle and in combination with void/emptiness. so what ever might speak for them, to simply concentrate on a point could be nearer to the goal. in the end it depends on how empty one can visualise something )

Also the descriptions of stages later in the book seem to be the first ok version on the market and explain correctly how the sequence turns around after the clear light, rare.

The Tube

If the winds which carry the consciousness enter the central channel: where is your consciousness now? exactly. inside the central channel. that means you are experiencing to be inside a channel or a tube. look up now there is an opening above you. the feeling that you get is one of tremendous joy. something like winds or turbulences are carrying you up there if you let go of your convictions or move by will. you are moving toward a brightness or deep deep release and a miraculous feeling of overwhelming wonder. there is an exciting accelerations feelable. you will be catapulted out into pure space and understand what a wonder it all is. there is so much out there and it has been there for so long. you are like a clown levitating in the universe speechless, unwanting to move and overwhelmed by the uncountable stars all around him, each of them a complete and new world. it is so much more playful and free than you allowed yourself to hope (we are leaving tummo and entering phowa territory here, i stop here)

take a holiday if you come back at the heart area if it fits for you, to experience completely how precious it is to be born as a human. not because of what you are in everydayconsciousness but because of your immense potential to be everything. the human in humans is a treasurechest.

the channel is the same that normal people experience when they die. it can happen early in practice that's why i mention it here, some people get it already during tsa lung, when they feel a vibration or light tube around them. you will understand then that this is not some exotic meditation technique but the most intimate and personal experience of yourself. you will remember that you already know it and it happened to you a thousand times or better you did it a thousand times before. the wonder of the incarnation of devine energy. it is so natural this coming and going and such a wonder at the same time.

There is no such thing as being reborn without wanting it.

If tuned into tummo-mode and you breath, breath in and out through your ears. (let go of the visual. it has the ability to focus/stop things. the ears can't stop, they take what is there)

There is mahamudra directly after sneezing.

Those of you with a love for extremesports: there is One Taste the millisecond before the extreme, when it glides into the extreme (or extreme situation)

Concerning the Post 139 of StianGH it might fit in here, that there is a chakra at the top of the male organ which can be used as an entrypoint of the energies to create deep sleep and a prolonged clear light of sleep. some people put instinctively their hand there before they fall asleep.You might have experienced it after good sex. the sleep is deep and light at the same time.

It is important because it is used in the union-exercises with a companion. If you are in union find the spot where the vagina/uterus is most sensitive. if you look down ) you can feel that you are in contact with the chakra 4 fingers below the navel of her (edited). this is no coincidence.

4fingersbelow is the same chakra that is used to create heat in tummo. the man here is kind of connected into the circuit of the woman. there are indications in the texts that a man can enlighten a woman this way, even if I have to admit that my experience is normally the other way round

if you concentrate on this spot you might feel, that it is possible that the energies enter her central channel, means that the direction of your energies can turn around.

(if this happens the coordination between in/out-breath, in/out-movement of pelvis and head-movement might turn around also, because it is in westerners normally paradox. thats why we feel sleepy instead of refreshed afterwards. you can also do it simply other than you would normally do it, to get it (more easy than to precisely describe it for me))

this is the same process we induce with the tummo exercise, when we are alone. energies are turning their direction because the usual doors are closed. the texts say that you become younger from there on if you want to do tummo only for health reasons, you just have to do the exercise to the point it creates this turning of energies (usually after the first or second wave of shaking) and the thing is done for the day.

Hi Loco,
I continue to enjoy 25 mins or so of tummo a day. So far it produces bliss and happiness and has a positive effect on my mind before regular meditation. My mindfulness or attention energy is increased by a large degree.

Ive tried the visualisation and I find it distracting to the process. So instead I place the mind on the root chakra and just note what happens. Can you say a little about practicing without visualisations regarding success and progress etc.

Best wishes Andy

Hi, Sorry to intrude on your Gentlemen's Section. The uterus is no way near 4 fingers below the navel unless the woman is about 15 weeks pregnant. A non-pregnant uterus is below the pubic bone, safely tucked within the pelvis. I would venture to guess that the chakra at the tip of the penis corresponds with a chakra at the cervix, and from there the energies move upwards. I don't think there is much written information about this because it appears that the texts on tummo, tsa lung, are written from the male perspective, for the benefit of the male.

"There is mahamudra directly after sneezing. "

I have had a passing interest in the precise phenomenology of sneezing, and spent some time examining it.

In the time-course of sneezing, precisely when is "directly after"?

If you could say more about this subject, it would be interesting to me.

"Hi, Sorry to intrude on your Gentlemen's Section. The uterus is no way near 4 fingers below the navel unless the woman is about 15 weeks pregnant. A non-pregnant uterus is below the pubic bone, safely tucked within the pelvis. I would venture to guess that the chakra at the tip of the penis corresponds with a chakra at the cervix, and from there the energies move upwards. I don't think there is much written information about this because it appears that the texts on tummo, tsa lung, are written from the male perspective, for the benefit of the male."

Hi, desertlizard, yes welcome ) well the cervix is a part of the uterus. which as a whole is affected through the stimulation and is for me together with the ovaries the most probable organsystem to correlate with this chakra myhealth.alberta.ca/health/pages/conditions.aspx?hwid=hw140091& (other organproposals welcome). that's why I wrote vagina/uterus to imply that I mean the whole system. Is it ok if I edit the sloppy formulation from "this point" to "this system" (I mean in case of my wife we are talking about 1-2 fingerwidhts)? Not that I wanted to suggest that I am so well endowed... :-)
@male perspective: sad but true. there is a book of miranda shaw called passionate enlightenment in which she collected texts about/from women in the tantric tradition/tummo and gives space to their interpretations which are very poetic and a pleasure to read.

Hello there, thanks for posting all this sir!

Just a comment regarding Trul khor: apparently the dude in this video is practicing Trul khor.

It deffinetely looks quite impracticable, is that why you didn't include the practice of Trul khor (and only Tsa Lung and 9 Breaths) in the Check list?

Thanks!

EDIT: In the video you recommended by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche he seems to talk about Tsa Lung and Trul Khor as if the same thing. I think I'm missing something here!

"I have had a passing interest in the precise phenomenology of sneezing, and spent some time examining it.
"

Sounds interesting, what did you find out?

@ sneezing/mahamudra: the tibetans had no time-course of sneezing when they wrote this, from my peronal experience I would say it's the first half second.

"Sounds interesting, what did you find out?

@ sneezing/mahamudra: the tibetans had no time-course of sneezing when they wrote this, from my peronal experience I would say it's the first half second. maybe somebody google it sneeze + mahamudra"

Perhaps I will begin another thread about this. My experience of sneezing has changed in some ways over the course of my practice, and I haven't looked at this quite so recently. But, if I recall, there is a resemblance between a certain moment (before a sneeze) to the experience of being startled. I'm not sure I ever thought to look *after* a sneeze.

When you say the first half-second, you mean exactly after a person sneezes, when they would otherwise be searching for a sink to wash their hands in?

"Hello there, thanks for posting all this sir!
"

thanks for reading it lol, yes part of trul khor ("obtaining warmth from the art of posturing the body") the exercise at the very beginning + the one at 3:31 is useful together with one that is not on the video if you kind of get "stuck in the middle of it" or feel as if you can't breath fully or free after the retention. 3:05 is against itching in the arms and works for some people. tsa lung can be seen as part of the larger trul khor (or not)

"When you say the first half-second, you mean exactly after a person sneezes, when they would otherwise be searching for a sink to wash their hands in?"

Just re-stating this due to interest.

I sneezed a few minutes ago but did not notice anything especially different immediately after the sneeze.

"Hi, desertlizard, yes welcome ) well the cervix is a part of the uterus. which as a whole is affected through the stimulation and is for me together with the ovaries the most probable organsystem to correlate with this chakra myhealth.alberta.ca/health/pages/conditions.aspx?hwid=hw140091& (other organproposals welcome). that's why I wrote vagina/uterus to imply that I mean the whole system. Is it ok if I edit the sloppy formulation from "this point" to "this system" (I mean in case of my wife we are talking about 1-2 fingerwidhts)? Not that I wanted to suggest that I am so well endowed... :-)
@male perspective: sad but true. there is a book of miranda shaw called passionate enlightenment in which she collected texts about/from women in the tantric tradition/tummo and gives space to their interpretations which are very poetic and a pleasure to read."

Thanks for the welcome LocoAustriaco. I don't want to belabor the point, but I just can't resist. By the way, thanks for all of your work here in posting the information on tummo. I spent years, many, many years ago, trying to figure it out on my own.

Anyway, I checked the diagram of the female reproductive system that you posted, to see how you were thinking. I can see what you mean, however, the (female) body doesn't look that like that 3 dimensionally. Diagrams just can't show all the curves The ovaries aren't up that high,tthe uterus curves forward or backward, rarely does it go straight up the body. It is below the pubic bone unless pregnant. I guess my point is that we can't look at diagrams and think the 2 dimensional necessarily applies to the 3 dimensional. I learned to trust what my body was telling me rather than rely on pictures, or for that matter, what lamas told me. I am not denying that there is a chakra about 4 fingers below the navel. And, I love your sense of humor.