Metta

My point is not about geography, it is about effective/practical metta practice and prayer. Although everyone isn't the same and we need to honor where a practioner's mind is at and not assume that there is One Right Way, we also need to help people find an effective practice or refine an effective practice even further....

At some point, hopefully we can ease people from thinking metta practice or prayer is about getting our desires answered. It isn't about getting calm. It isn't about being healthy. It isn't about some agent changing black to white or blue to chartreuse. As the priest said to Ona:

"Prayer doesn’t change God, but it changes us, or at least it ought to change us. Ideally and ultimately, it ought to change our minds to conform to the mind of God…to the will of God."

I'm talking about what we can do to make the "ought to" more likely. Which is looking at out intentions and cultivating good ones and rejecting bad ones. Not wanting people you are in conflict with to be calm, at easy, healthy, rested, whole, awakened, without suffering, and happy is a disaster about to happen. It doesn't matter if they are or are not, it matters if ----even in conflict---- we really do want the best for others.

I don't use the language of "conform to the mind of god" so I can't really speak to that. I'm just talking about conforming to the mind of a friend. (Metta=friendliness).

sorry if my comments dragged the conversation in unhelpful directions. i feel like i've miunderstood something along the way, and what was intended as participatory has turned into a tangent. anyhoo.

Ona Kiser wrote: sorry if my comments dragged the conversation in unhelpful directions. i feel like i've miunderstood something along the way, and what was intended as participatory has turned into a tangent. anyhoo.

No worries at all. I just thought your question (what is different between prayer and metta) was a really good one. It all depends on what is being done under the auspice of "metta practice" or "prayer". If both are of an esoteric slant, they're quite similar. If both are of an exoteric slant, they are quite similar. If one is esoteric and one is exoteric, then they are quite different.

Ona Kiser wrote: the problem you describe here is an exoteric vs esoteric one. people who are not in the awakening process thingy aren't going to relate to christianity as a wisdom tradition. so the conversation is hard to have. it's like a sufi and a wahabi fundamentalist trying to discuss islam. two very different ways of relating to it.

I've just spent a big chunk of time reading the fruits of googling "exoteric vs. esoteric religion. Try it for yourself.

Fascinating readings. Thank you, Ona, for this serendipitous detour in my evening.

lol. yes, once you discover esoteric christianity (or judaism) you get to explore thousands of years of absolutely fascinating practices and writings.