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Practical Hua-Tou
Tomo, I know Stuart pretty well. We've been corresponding off and on over the last few years via email. I gave the hua-tou practice a concerted effort for a while, and he was a dependable and skillful coach.Though it's not my specialty, I am familiar with the practice to some degree. One thing Stuart made clear to me was that the purpose of the hua-tou is to cultivate a strong sense of doubt - that feeling of not knowing. It's not investigation leading to any sort of intellectual conclusion. The mind will conjure up all kinds of solutions to the conundrum, but they are to be left by the wayside. The point is for the doubt to grow and grow, like a snowball rolling down a mountain. It begins to build an immense amount of force, like a freight train speeding toward the edge of a cliff. It can be unsettling. All of the classic dark night symptoms arise. It can get really, realy intense.You don't want to push too hard, so as to short ciruit your mind and leave yourself in a stupor. But you do want the doubt/not-knowing to build and build...... and it's best not to speak about what might happen as a result ;-)Another thing Stuart stressed about this practice was not to engage in it while doing something that demands a lot of attention, such as riding a bike or driving a car. He knows of an individual who was not so careful, and crashed their bike. But, when your safety is more assured, keep the questioning mind active persistently, consistently.Don't try to answer the question. Just build the doubt.Also, I think it's really cool that you're giving this a shot
-awouldbehipster
Stuart has been gracious enough to agree to help me out with this, and so I have started this thread as, not so much a practice journal, but a place to discuss the practical aspects of hua-tou as I stumble along. Please feel free to offer any input.I have been doing this practice for a little over a week now, and my first observation is that it is a very simple practice, but it is far, far (far, far, far) from being easy. As Jackson notes above, one of the key things to try and achieve is doubt, but IMO that is pretty advanced too. My major stumbling block at this point is to simply treat the h-t as a genuine question as opposed to a mantra. Try it. Say a question over and over again, and see how long you can keep that up without it transforming from a genuine question to just words. Not easy.I don't want to reproduce private correspondence here, but Stuart uses the following teaching example:
I have found the example of being interested in the person living in the the next apartment coming home. You hear the door slam and hear footsteps and sounds coming through the wall, but you are not sure exactly what is going on. Was that the closet door or the bedroom door that slammed? That last sound was that package being put on the table or some thing dropped on the floor? As intently as you listen, you are still uncertain of exactly what you are hearing, but you still listen intently and still want to know even more. Try approaching the h-t like this but gently asking, "Who is dragging this body around?" "Who?" "Who?" ....keep it gentle but keep asking.
Right now, that is not working for me but I am still hacking away at it, once or twice a day seated, and as often as I can during the day. What jazzes me about the practice is its potential for doing it during dog walking, which is a good 45m each night that, up until now, has been wasted practice-wise.I will also add (if it is not clear from the above) that the practice is pretty frustrating right now. While I certainly did not expect fireworks, the difficulty of keeping the question fresh and not mantra-like was unexpected. ETA: WTF is up with the formatting here??? There should be paragraphs.
-- tomo
Your're right - keeping the doubt fresh in experience is difficult. As you aluded to, simply repeating (silently) the word "who" is not enough. There's a certainly quality of genuine questioning that must accompany the word. That's what I think Stuart is pointing to. It's bona fide curiosity.
If you can keep it going, it will gain momentum. It's hard to trust this when you haven't experienced any building effect, but that's where "faith" comes in; that is, the kind of faith that say, "People I know and have some confidence in have done this practice, and they have seen a result. I can do the practice, too, and also see the results." The important thing is just to keep doing the practice, instead of trying to do the result. Make sense?
Growing the doubt during dog walking is a terrific idea, as long as you remember to snap out of it before crossing the street. Otherwise, the corpse being dragged around may end up... well, just a corpse

That is now how I am approaching this.
-- tomo
While I continue to do the practice both on- and off-cushion, I am finding that for shorter sitting sessions, it is almost counter-productive. I feel as though I need to get some level of concentration and focus established before asking the question, otherwise it is just a mantra, and short sits just don't cut it. For longer sessions, or for long walks, I seem to be getting somewhere. The latter, in particular, seems to engage me more so that I begin to feel a fluttering in my chest when I just ask "Why?" repeatedly?
During the day, asking here and there seems to be doing nothing, nothing perceptible at least.
As always, it seems that time is the crucial element regardless of what practice is done. Time produces momentum, and momentum induces change. At least, that's the way I see it.
-- tomo
-- tomo
I agree absolutely that setting aside time to focus on practice is an important kind of practice, and one that often produces a level of concentration that rarely be found "asking here and there". But aside from that, as to this supplemental (during the day...here and there) type practice:
I think there is something to be said for it. That is, if you repeat an intention, affirmation, thought, question throughout the day - even without making a big focused deal of it, even just in a rote, mantra-like way - it still has an effect. The effect of feeling an altered state arise when you say it is not relevant in this context, I think. It is normal to want to "feel a result" in the form of an altered state when doing anything "spiritual," but that is really limiting practice to times when you have the right atmosphere to get into a bit of a trance.
Just because you don't get that "hit" or "buzz", doesn't mean that you aren't adding to the unconscious pervasiveness of the technique, idea, question, devotional phrase, etc which only adds to the momentum of your practice overall.
It's like those affirmation things for kids who feel ugly, to look in the mirror each morning and say "You are beautiful" - doesn't matter if you don't believe it, don't feel different when you say it, hate saying it, whatever - if you say it for long enough one day you will realize it has started working on you and you are starting to believe it.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
-ona
I cannot discount any subconscious "accumulation" that may be happening which, by definition, I cannot see nor feel. I will ask Stuart about this, because my read of it is that it only really starts to help once the h-t becomes "alive".
-- tomo
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One thing I need to work on is dealing with conflict as I am still very fearful in such situations.
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Exactly!
I don't much care if the person expresses it in a non-technical way.
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Of course, the practice is also making me more aware of ugly stuff, so it's seemingly a double-edged sword sometimes.
One thing I've noticed is that I take on "feeling-tones" very easily. For example, I spent the last three days at a mental health conference where there were many consumers (of mental health services) present and yesterday evening after returning I felt really unstable, like I was going crazy. It stabilized a bit after sitting yesterday evening and I am more or less back to "normal" now. But I have noticed a similar effect when I watch movies: I'll take on the feeling-tone of the movie, so that, say, I am energized to be a kickass covert spy after watching the Jason Bourne trilogy. It's a very distinct feeling that aligns with the movie's presentation. The feeling-tone will pass with time or after I sit. Anyone else have this experience?
That's cool, Ona. I'm interested in using more precision in the language we use to describe the effects of mediation. I'm certain these things are compatible, not mutually exclusive. The reason is that I encounter folks who read message boards and books and then ask questions that are very clearly driven by misunderstandings of terminology. I know people who have refused to meditate because they didn't want their "personality" to be changed. So make sure to put a lot of caveats jun front of everything I say but I really do think the language matters.
-cmarti
Ah, in that context I understand.
Yeah, thanks for the validation Ona. That's exactly how I feel.
Of course, the practice is also making me more aware of ugly stuff, so it's seemingly a double-edged sword sometimes.
One thing I've noticed is that I take on "feeling-tones" very easily. For example, I spent the last three days at a mental health conference where there were many consumers (of mental health services) present and yesterday evening after returning I felt really unstable, like I was going crazy. It stabilized a bit after sitting yesterday evening and I am more or less back to "normal" now. But I have noticed a similar effect when I watch movies: I'll take on the feeling-tone of the movie, so that, say, I am energized to be a kickass covert spy after watching the Jason Bourne trilogy. It's a very distinct feeling that aligns with the movie's presentation. The feeling-tone will pass with time or after I sit. Anyone else have this experience?
-sunyata
I think that's pretty human, if I think about watching kids coming out of a kung fu movie and they'll be doing the moves and play fighting and all jazzed up or watching people coming out of a sad movie and they'll be holding kleenex. We are wired to pick up on the moods of the people around us, even "fake" people in a movie. Horror movies get us wound up because we are identifying with the fear of the victims and the adrenalin of the fights and so on.
I personally find I am not very comfortable with a lot of noise and crowds, and often need to wind down after being in a scene like a big conference, party, club, street festival, traveling, etc. Some people say it's a sensitivity relating to mediumship, but I suspect it's more to do with my personality, which has always preferred solitude and quiet. (Not that I never enjoy boisterousness - I do - but I tend to have a short span of tolerance before I need a break.) I do best at parties or events where there's some area outside where I can go and sit quietly and talk to a friend or stare at the sky and then go back in to the chaos. Otherwise I tend to want to go home after a couple hours.
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Def. But I think some people may be more sensitive to the moods of others.
I have a very similar tendency when at parties or around crowds. I usually test pretty high on introversion.
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