Rod's Practice Log

theme at present is finding balance.Meditating at least a couple of hours a day but seem to be hitting a threshold point and then falling back with fatigue. I am work full time - I do 1 hour in the morning and 2-3 in the evening before sleep. See next point but I think I have been trying to hard around first Jhana which I find exhausting.
Second point is finding balance with my approach to Jhanas. A few breaths into a meditation I have Piti, but its very jumpy and shoots up from solar plexus to head spasmodically and whilst a few weeks ago would lock into this high vibratory state (which I assume was first Jhana), now just doesn't hold. I was continuing on into some very stable and fine concentration through focusing more broadly but now, it just jumps around this gross vibratory state with Piti and Sukkha swirling around but not settling or 'locking' into any routine state. I don't really know what I am talking about, I might be just describing exactly what is supposed to happen but to have that confirmed at least would be something.
So adjusting to shorter 'sits' and also letting go and not expecting anything - just focusing on the breath under the nostrils and almost ignoring the sensations swirling around. I was also meditating lying down as it seemed easier and often if I fell asleep, I would wake up drop straight into 1st Jhana. However, not happening over the last few days and in fact I am getting tight neck and shoulders from tensing up with all the piti and sukkha rising upwards to my head - each time it happens, its like a physical spasm in my neck and shoulders and I have to work at relaxing - which induces another blast - things seem out of balance, no history of neck, shoulder tension etc. No depression or mental issues - generally I am a pretty happy, positive sort of person.
Third point - need to start noting through day - as I can understand why this would be important to keep mind occupied daily.

Practice Update 24/12/12

Concentration recovered, practice is settling down and becoming more consistent. Whilst I am still unsure what Jhana I am in, with more sits and more consistent experience emerging I am 1) bouncing off first Jhana and just sitting in access concentration or 2) moving through first and second jhanas and cutting edge is 3rd method/experience below:
* Start session and able to settle pretty quickly
* Breathing slows and concentration on breath starts
* Establish consistent breath concentration and become aware of good feeling in solar plexus
* Focus slightly on that whilst still maintaining breath concentration
* It grows and spreads to waves (First Jhana) Not as violent as before
* This settles to waves of good feeling that last for a short time (2nd Jhana?) and gradually subside to localised areas
* Now it settles to a point where the tingling in my body almost completely disappears and my mental view becomes wide and calm. Today, I experienced a very slow and gentle wave/pulse from head down to feet almost as if I was floating on a lake with broad low ripples.(3rd Jhana?)
* Then start trying to broaden my awareness. I started doing this by feeling in and out breaths to suffuse my entire body and gradually grow beyond my body hopefully carrying my awareness with them. Although I have only tried that once, it seemed to be working where I had the slight sensation for an instant that my body was far away.
Note: Whilst I am going through this, I still hear sounds outside (ie people talking outside, cars going by etc), and in most cases they are not drawing my attention, I am aware of them. Not sure if this is a sign that I am not in Jhana? Noting has been slow - its a difficult practice to get going through one's day, but will keep at it. Really looking forward to when it starts to take off and the whole practice starts to add momentum.
Rod

Update 27/12/12

The last few days has been a great opportunity to meditate alot - with 3 - 4 sessions a day possible without interruption. This has enabled me to just go with what is happening to experiment a bit and establish repeatability/consistency of experiences to provide some indication of where I am at and how I can utilise that as much as possible. So I have been able to establish some fairly solid assumptions such as I am able to get into access concentration and 1st Jhana, move to 2nd and then third Jhanas and possibly 4th (probably cutting edge of practice at the moment). I have been able to move up to this cutting edge point fairly quickly with each sit. I have tested this by trying out moving back to 2nd and first and then back up to 3rd and maybe 4th again as well. So it seems I have developed some mobility around the first 3-4 Samatha Jhanas.
The cutting edge point is interesting - I get to a point where all tingling feeling etc is gone from my legs and body and the key sensation is a broad thin line of awareness/concentration across the front of my 'closed eyes'. I have been able to hold this for a while but often move between this and a less clear state where I have that line of concentration but also can feel my legs and arms tingling slightly. It seems that the further I have been able to go along this path, the frequency of vibration gets finer from 1st Jhana upwards and by 4th (or what I think is 4th) it is so fine that its almost imperceptible.
Holding things at this frontier point, now makes me wonder what to do then? Its a great opportunity to contemplate or focus on something helpful such as the 3 characteristics. So need to research that. Also need to research how to 'look' for the formless Jhanas (assuming i am in the 4th). But will need to explore and confirm the stability and reliability of that assumption as well.

Any Advice appreciated

Rod

Welcome, Rod. I haven't been spending a lot of time here lately, so I don't know whether you've already posted and introduced yourself here in another thread, but if not, it would be great to hear about previous practice history, how you came to be on this forum, what your goals are. That will help people give advice.

As for your current practice, it sounds to me like you're doing great work with jhana practice, accessing most likely up to fourth, and that you could push onward if you wanted. I can relate to the tension you described in your first post; first jhana is not relaxing, and can create that kind of response. After awhile it settled down; that's normal too.

As for where you want to go next: you could start insight practice, or keep on to the arupas. It's really up to you. When I was posting here back in May of 2011 I was doing jhana practice and people advised me to begin noting. I did that, and while the jhanas faded for awhile, I was able to get them back.

All the best, Laurel

Hi Laurel, thanks for welcoming post no I haven't introduced myself here - good idea. I have included some background and also updated profile.

Background
'¢ 20 years ago was very interested in Buddhism and read everything I could get my hands on and I meditated for about 1 year twice a day until I started waking up in the middle of the night with my body locked and had to fight to regain movement. Freaked me out (I was young) and so stopped meditating and the experiences stopped but since found it sleep paralysis (thanks DHO people).
'¢ Stayed fascinated and respectful of the Dharma since then but not practiced.
'¢ Over the past year have been seeing the pointlessness of fighting and competing in life and watching others do it as well (not depressed, happy generally and successful in career etc) '“ just all seems a waste of time.
'¢ My Father died a few months ago and through watching him die I resolved that I need to return to Buddha's teachings and (being a scientist) to try it out seriously regarding liberation so that death is not the panic ridden trauma for me that it was for my father.
'¢ I read all I could again about Buddhism and stumbled onto DarmaOverground and from that discovered Kenneth Folk Dharma and absolutely sucked up everything about the map and paths etc. '“ fantastic sites.
Thanks
Rod

Goals - well ultimately I want to know the truth of things - how things actually are. I know I should be careful for what I wish for here but thats good because it means that something really can happen and although I am not very old, I kind of get the picture of how things are as we exist now, so for me its time to see behind that. The thought of living in a delusional state and worse still, that being a state of suffering is both ridiculous and fascinating to me. I need perspective and for (hopefully) the second half of my life, its really the most sensible journey to take. So given this, my goals are the whole box and dice i.e. Stream Entry and paths as many as exist (I suspect there are more than 4) until I have to die. Having said all that cavalier stuff, in the hopefully shorter term, A&P, DN (uggh) and Stream Entry would be the main objectives. I have been trying to develop noting and its hard through the day but will keep at it.

Thanks for the response. If your goal right now is Stream Entry, then vipassana is the way to go. You've developed good concentration. When I was on retreat with Leigh Brasington last summer, he recommended spending half one's time doing jhana practice and half doing insight (and his specialty is teaching jhana). That's more jhana practice than is typically recommended for pre-path yogis around here. But if you're reluctant to go either/or, you could split your sits so that you attain up to 4th jhana, then start noting. Or if you sit twice in one day, have one sit where you work on going beyond 4th jhana, and another doing mostly noting. It's hard to note in daily life but well worth it; however, any such practice needs to be grounded in a sitting vipassana practice as well.

Practice Log Update 29/12/12
Thanks for the advice Laurel. Today I tried 3 things. 1) more practice going up and down the Jhanas (as far as I know) and stabilising and getting used to what I think is the 4th Jhana 2) Looking for the 5th Jhana expanding awareness to 'infinity' 3) trying to mentally note all sensations, feelings and their qualities whilst in that stable state reverting to the breath (in, out) as reference point if things get unstable. After a second quite long session of doing this, the 4th Jhana state (or what I think is that) became more stable (really peaceful with very low vibrations/tinging) and I was able to note any little sensations e.g. itchy, impermanent rising, impermanent sustaining, impermanent fading, unpleasant etc etc. then back to breath in, breath out. This certainly helped keep the mind from wandering and helped stay solid in the state. Then at the end of the sessions, I would try to come back through the Jhanas visiting their most notable sensations and holding then moving back. Felt like walking down a hall ever closer to a party with entering the party room at the first Jhana with lots of heavy vibrations and swirling energy. I guess these Jhanas are not very hard Jhanas because I can still note in them - there seems to be some different opinions on what constitutes a jhana state and some I have read suggest that no thinking is possible whilst in these states. Maybe I am completely off track and just in access concentration? Just keep going I guess and see what happens.

Update 30/12/12

Tried the same as yesterday. Had a really strong concentrated meditation this morning but the follow up this afternoon was pretty sleepy and scattered - 2 reasons that I can think of - lunch! full stomach is not good (Duh!) and after reading more on descriptions of Jhanas, got doubt as to where I am and what I am doing. So the session was pretty unclear but still got to what I think is a Jhana 3-4 concentration level.
Did a bit of noting but not getting into it yet. Definitely need to address the balance between concentration and mindfulness - so will stabilise the Jhana practice and focus on the off-cushion practice since that constitutes a larger part of the day than meditating. Having said that I have applied for a Vipassana retreat in Jan - which I think will help get the mindfulness skills up and generally be a good chance to have some solid sessions meditating. Never done one before so any advice on how best to approach it would be appreciated.

Retreats are wonderful. The first time, though, can be tough--I remember going crazy because I just wanted to talk about what was going on in my practice and of course the opportunities for doing that were severely limited. So during walking meditation, or during breaks for meals and whatnot, my little brain would carry on extensive imaginary conversations with the teacher, until I finally caught on to the fact that things were changing with every sit, and so rehearsing what I might say in a group session (where you get to pose one question and that's about it) was a waste of time. I still did it though.

I believe in obeying the rules absolutely. This means not only no sneaking off to make a phone call or read something, but no snacking in between meals, and no drinks of tea during walking meditation periods, unless there's a reason. What I mean by a reason: on two retreats I found myself getting too absorbed, and began to feel a sense of anxiety around it. The teacher actually suggested grounding practices, and cutting back on sitting. One such grounding practice is eating heavy food; another is tai chi, or going for walks. Otherwise, though, you benefit most when you attend every sit and do walking meditation diligently.

" Having said that I have applied for a Vipassana retreat in Jan - which I think will help get the mindfulness skills up and generally be a good chance to have some solid sessions meditating. Never done one before so any advice on how best to approach it would be appreciated.
"

My experience with retreats is that they are an excellent time to practice but sometimes very light on vipassana meditation instruction. This list is very good on meditation guidance. I suggest you keep a vipassana log on this list and maybe have a session or two with some of its affiliated teachers.

Thanks for the advice Laurel and Jackha - great to learn from your experiences about retreats - especially yours Laurel. This is one of the Goenka Vipassana structured retreats - I am on a wait list so may not get to go but at this stage I think would give me a good context with which to develop the mindfulness side of things given my focus so far has been on Jhana/concentration. I only have holiday time in Jan - rest of the year is full so trying to make the best use of what is available. Good idea on getting some sessions with teachers on this site, I will do this especially if I can't get on this retreat. I know that Kenneth does teaching sessions on Skype but not sure if he would want to spend his time with 'pre-pathers' such as me. Thanks, appreciate your comments

Update 31/12/12

Final session last night resulted in what I think was the 5th Jhana - got through the consistent experience I believe are Jhana's 1 through 4, then utilised an approach for the 5th Jhana by removing boundaries of my consciousness and a distinct shift occurred and suddenly everything was really big and spacious - the focus was everywhere rather than just broadly around me. Really pleasant and different. So I stayed with that and wasn't quite sure how to bring about Jhana 6 so just kept with it - there were some more distinct shifts but the resulting states were not clear. One state was quite turbulent (like choppy weather on a flight) then jumped to serene state again. Was able to replicate 5th Jhana shift in 2 sessions today. Was out this morning and used the time to practice noting - actually quite enjoyed it and unless I am doing it wrong, found it ok to keep a consistent stream of nothings - the more busy the environment, the more opportunities to note I guess. I did silent noting so I wasn't incarcerated for strange behaviour!

Update 02/01/13
This time of 'semi retreat' enabling me to do 3-4 meditation sessions a day over the past couple of weeks is finishing. Progress has been reasonable with some clarity and consistency being developed around Jhana practice and concentration skills have improved. I also have started noting which will become a bigger focus of my practice now not only because I will not have the same opportunities to meditate as much as I have (unless I can go on the Goenka Vipassana retreat Mid Jan) but more importantly, the insight side of things is to be developed if I want to have real progress. Not having a car, I enjoy getting to work and carrying out errands on foot and over the past few days I have been mentally noting whilst out and walking to try it out. I am currently reading up on the technique as much as possible but what I am doing is noting mentally as much of what is coming to my senses as possible. I am also noting thoughts that arise, day dreaming, extrapolated ideas and mental wanderings (i.e. chasing the links between sensory income and resulting thoughts/feelings etc). Basically, I am taking a view that all must be 'on the table' so there are (hopefully) no mental processes, wanderings, indulgences going on without me being aware of them and noting them. Its an interesting process since the busier things are, the easier it is to do as there is more material to occupy the practice with, whereas this would normally be highly distracting to a practicing person. For the Lay person this seems a great practice. Even with the short experience of it so far, I have noticed that whilst doing it, there is very little dreaming/wandering etc and also, (maybe it's just the great sunny days we have been getting) but subtly, things seem brighter and more 'real', very positive. If I am practicing this properly, I can definitely see great benefits - ingenius idea really. Out Loud noting could get weird in public though.

Update 05/01/13

Reduced number and length of sits now to about 2-3 hrs per day (split evenly to first in morning and last at night). More distractions around but not so bad. Early morning sits are hard to wake up enough for - the mind is pretty dopey and torpid at this stage so takes longer to get to cutting edge. Am trying to get as far up Jhanas as I can to achieve what I think is 4th which is very balanced, can't feel my body much or at all and then trying to note sensations, vibrations, or contemplate questions such as Who is doing this? etc. I am aware this is pretty flakey and unstructured but with more reading, will tune it up to something more productive and directed. Basically though, pretty positive experiences, not stressed about it - just moving forward gently not forcing it. Really interested in developing the noting for off the cushion as once I return to work and all the rest of my life really kicks in, it will be the most useful I think. Lots of questions about noting and doing it most effective way but still sifting through the DHO, KFD, Hamilton Project etc entries so might find answers there before I ask them on this website. The main questions are around degree of detail and recognition of objects/sensation/phenomena being noted. Walking down the street and note what is in the field of all my senses - i.e. I see trees - I note trees, I see cars - I note cars. I also note the emotions, sensations (if I can sense them) that I have upon sensing these objects/phenomena such as I see people -note people -I sense tension-nervousness arises, it passes. I hear a loud noise-I note noise (possibly also what the noise is) - I sense irritation to the noise - I note that. This method certainly sucks up mind time so day dreaming and mental adventures are significantly reduced or eliminated. Certainly makes me aware of now. Anyone who can give some perspective as to if this is on the right track or way off please feel welcome to comment. Rod

Update 09/01/13

Continuing to stabilise meditation up to what I think is 4th Jhana. Its a really stable, clear and uneventful happy state and provides a good platform to develop insight practices I am thinking. So have started noting in that state but because not much happens there, I need to get my perception to be more subtle to pick up sensations to note. I can of course note hearing of outside noises etc. Also started looking at trying Metta practice in this Jhana (if thats what it is). Pretty shaky but early days yet. Off the cushion, daily noting is a bit of a pea soup of approach and frequency etc. Sometimes I will just completely forget to do it when it was a great opportunity. I get confused when walking - I walk alot and its usually normal to fast speed. So in my mind, I am not sure to note 'walking' or 'left' right' (military style) or what as its pretty fast. I certainly not whatever other sensations I pick up. So as usual, with practice it will get better. Noticing alot of 'kriya' events whilst meditating - yesterday one bounced me off the ground, it was so strong. Its just involuntary jerking and twitching, no A&P to see here I don't think.

Well back at work which has really played havoc with my practice as expected so I must adapt. My meditation depth and duration has dropped, more diligence required with my noting practice and of course stress levels due to work have increased. General points of interest over the past few days include, the last meditation before returning to work, I got to 4th Jhana (?) and tried to look for 'I' and got to a point where I could see processes of sensory intake and processing going on and could not find 'I'. There was something subtle about that realisation that stayed with me after the session. Something moved/shifted very subtly - not sure what. This morning's session was 2.5 hours (being Saturday morning) and it was the most unpleasant I had yet - lots of tightness/stress in the eyes and between the eyes, easy 1st and second Jhana but hard to stabilise beyond that, lots of negative thoughts (work related) that I struggled to ignore - I tried noting hard, watching breath and with the tightness in the eye area I tried visualising massage of the area and even performing metta on myself. The session left me with pain around my eyes and I had to take a tablet. Better later. This could be just stress from work or something else - not sure but more sessions will reveal it I guess and I am keen to see how it plays out. Also had to cancel my booked retreat starting tomorrow due to work commitment next week - bummer.

Sorry about your retreat not working out. You have had a good, strong practice going on; noting as you're walking is great. Wondering whether you're doing it right is par for the course; everyone does that. You're being very diligent about all of this, have achieved good concentration skills and are using your time well.

Now that you're back at work you're experiencing a game changer. The resultant frustration and loss of focus, and with it a sense of well-being, are yet another stage of practice. It feels like a setback but it really is you engaging with life at another level, even if you don't really like it.

You mentioned in an earlier post that you didn't think Kenneth would take on a pre-path person: not true! Send him a message. He can help you a lot.

Thanks for your advice here Laurel - it is encouraging and really helpful to have objective (but very experienced) evaluation of my practice experiences and choices. I had a really strong focused and stable sit last night (Saturday) which was encouraging. Work is going to be a challenge but it really forces me to get the noting skills up to be robust against the extra stress (positive and negative) - its good to know I am not the only one in this situation . I think the retreat would have enabled me to cover alot of ground but I will look for the next opportunity and lock it in as annual leave well in advance.
After posting my belief about Kenneth probably not having time for pre-lathers such as me, I thought it was a bit pre-judgemental of me and so sent him a message - and I am really happy as he is keen to have some sessions on Skype with me which will be coming up in the next couple of weeks. So that will be great because I have alot of questions Thanks again!

Now back at work, the practice has been challenged '“ it is harder to concentrate in meditation without stressful thoughts arising, stress levels increased overall, difficult to stay mindful whilst at work and particularly hard to follow the 5 precepts '“ such as right speech '“ gossip is such a ubiquitous part of a workplace. So, being patient with meditation sessions and more disciplined. Whilst some of the best and longest sessions were in supine position, it is harder to not fall asleep and to wake up out of sleep to meditate properly. So transitioning to sitting (kneeling using seiza stool) and placing time limits on sessions. Continuing to do stretching yoga twice daily and 85 pushups daily to keep strong, and flexible releasing stresses from the body as well. Also yoga stretching is designed to help with sitting more comfortably for longer without pain distraction. Continuing to build noting practice through the day particularly on bus to work and home again. Trying to snap out of daily delusion and notice this moment and reality throughout the day but this will take time to develop and grow as a practice. (For expanded account, see DHO under 'RodC practice log' as there is not enough space to write it here.

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