NickP's practice notes

Hey Nick, sounds great. The phenomena of review can be very subtle. For me, the 'starting at A&P' bit manifested as noticing vibrations and flickering in the head and visual field whenever I closed my eyes for a few seconds. Sometimes I would also notice other sensations becoming vibratory with just a slight bit of attention, like looking at the sensations of my hand on the wheel while driving.

By the time you get path, your groove through the preceding nanas is so well-worn that they're likely to just flash by. The transition of a fruition in what Kenneth calls review phase A can be as simple as going deep in your meditation, noticing expansiveness and subtle phenomena like gentle 'pockets' of tingling and distant sounds, and then after some time noticing that you've becoming more alert, more energized, that the visual field just got a little brighter and the flickering or strobing a little more distinct or palpable.

I'll try to go back and read your posts a little more closely to see if I have anything else to add.

Great. Thanks guys, your posts really help clarifying this stuff.

Nadav, I can totally relate to the "starting at A&P" bit and what the shift in review A is like. Very similar experience here.

One thing I haven't seen in other people's descriptions of Fruitions, is the entrance for me is pretty long, feels pretty "electrical", and the mind pays attention kind of "on its own volition" to the visual field. The exit is also drawn out, and now in review B it's more peaceful than the entrance.
I am so looking for validation, I'd like to be able to offer a description of these (Fruition?) events and have others say "yeah, that's a Fruition, welcome to the club" or "nah, it's just an unusual rapture, all your perks are placebo effect", but it's so hard to describe. I can only say what its qualities feel like.

More changes observed by this compulsive process:
- The Hurricane Ranch synod is easier to understand now.
- Shyness is gone! But that feels too good to be permanent, it MUST be part of the transient afterglow. If it's permanent, it is THE perk of this Path.

BTW, Laurel, I think you underestimated the power of my mind to beat itself up. Not only do I compare my experiences with an imagined ideal of enlightenment, but also wonder whether they will fade! And some will, only I don't know which.

Interesting, in last night's sit, Disgust appeared clearly for the first time. With a grimace at the nose, that was pretty visceral. I tried to see how it worked, so I forced the grimace to undo, and it came back immediately. Later, shortly after it withdrew on its own, the bright and gross flashes of the A&P appeared (was coming down the arc after a Fruition).

This is great. I'm back! I woke up today and the honeymoon was abruptly over. Mood is normal again! It feels more natural than the heightened mood of the last few days. I'm still in review though.
I sat today and felt like I was the most passive observer in the world. Excitement calmed down, so I was able to note for 5 straight minutes, which felt like an accomplishment. The territory gets clearer. I'm still terrible at giving it a name on the maps, but I'm getting to see the increased discerning power of the mind without the clouds brought by excitement.

Tonight I had a session with Ron. I told him about my recent experiences on and off the cushion, and I sat for some 15 minutes while narrating my experience to him. Then he confirmed Stream Entry, and we spent the last part of the session talking about what comes next, resolutions, First Path Review, integration into life, Second Path, and balancing samatha vs. vipassana in this part of the path.

I am very grateful with him and with you guys, who chipped in and threw some light onto my doubts, who helped me with my motivation to get it done, and who made very clear that we are all in this together indeed.

I am very grateful to those who mapped this stuff out. I would have liked to have a detailed map of the 4th vipassana jhana, that would probably have saved me from some unhealthy expectations. This is a summary of my chronological progress through the First Path, which I hope will help those who tread it after me.

[b:5mzc5px3]Mid March 2012[/b:5mzc5px3] - Meditated for the first time. Then, practiced breath meditation for a couple weeks.
[b:5mzc5px3]Early April[/b:5mzc5px3] - Started practicing breath meditation following instructions from Mindfulness in Plain English
[b:5mzc5px3]Mid April[/b:5mzc5px3] - Found MCTB, started it, finished it around Late May. Started practicing samatha anapanasati trying to get jhanas, unsuccessfully.
[b:5mzc5px3]Mid May[/b:5mzc5px3] - Crossed the A&P [url:5mzc5px3]http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/3151481[/url:5mzc5px3]. Then, caught glimpses of jhanas 1-3 before plunging into DN.
[b:5mzc5px3]Jun & Jul[/b:5mzc5px3] - DN, sleep schedule messed up, mindfulness low, concentration crappy. Joined a local vipassana group.
[b:5mzc5px3]Mid Aug[/b:5mzc5px3] - First glimpses of EQ. Samatha jhanas are back, including 4th.
[b:5mzc5px3]Late Aug[/b:5mzc5px3] - An interesting experience, either a first glimpse into infinite space, or an A&P event with the quality of spaciousness. Low EQ more consistent, being reached in most of the sits.
[b:5mzc5px3]Late Sep[/b:5mzc5px3] - Noticed pre-path cycling. One day: an unknowing event, and then 2 or 3 days wandering around with no sense of self, like a depersonalisation experience. Interpreted back in the day as a near-miss to Path.
[b:5mzc5px3]Oct, Nov[/b:5mzc5px3] - Insight disease getting pushy. Reaching Mid EQ in most of the sits after ~40 minutes, feeling stuck and bored and spacing out once there. Progressively increasing pressure at the temples. Mid Nov: started practice log in DhO.
[b:5mzc5px3]Early Dec[/b:5mzc5px3] - Went on a weekend retreat. Pressure at the temples huge. First pleasant tensions in third-eye area. Had an unknowing event, felt lighter and happy afterwards. Gained ability to jump jhanas and ñanas out of order. Once back, had a couple days that felt like Review on the cushion, and very relaxed off the cushion, fluent, less anxious and more energetic. Part of it was probably scripted, part of it just brought on by what I now understand as a near-miss.
[b:5mzc5px3]Last half of Dec[/b:5mzc5px3] - Went on holidays for 2 weeks and stopped practice almost completely. Kept reading dharma stuff though.
[b:5mzc5px3]Jan 2013[/b:5mzc5px3] - Path craving getting worse. Same situation as in Oct, Nov. Log moved to KFD.
[b:5mzc5px3]Feb[/b:5mzc5px3] - Took up noting at the one and only technique, this lasted for the month, then got burnout and kept the technique as the preferential one but not exclusive. Noted out-loud when possible. Started to do sessions of >1hr at the weekends, usually 2.
[b:5mzc5px3]Late Feb[/b:5mzc5px3] - Pleasant tensions in the third eye area are back.
[b:5mzc5px3]Early Mar[/b:5mzc5px3] - Anticipation becomes a big hindrance. Third eye area tensions become common. Starting to practice >4 hours on weekends.
[b:5mzc5px3]Mid Mar[/b:5mzc5px3] - Mindfulness off-cushion gets noticeably better and less labourious.
[b:5mzc5px3]Late Mar[/b:5mzc5px3] - Crown activity starts to become common, including a bubble below it, and tingling on it.
[b:5mzc5px3]Late Mar/Early Apr[/b:5mzc5px3] - Went on a 4-day retreat. Really got to explore the third-eye and crown activity. Anticipation still getting in the way, can't let go. Rising from 1Ñ to High EQ (with crown activity) in nearly all sits.
[b:5mzc5px3]First couple days of Apr[/b:5mzc5px3] - Sits begin at Low EQ (with third-eye activity) and move through High EQ, not traversing earlier ñanas. Weekend: practiced for 7 hours with little aversion.
[b:5mzc5px3]Next few days[/b:5mzc5px3] - Proportion of time spent in High EQ increases vs. Low EQ. Crown activity gets very fireworks-y
[b:5mzc5px3]9th of Apr[/b:5mzc5px3] - Stream Entry
[b:5mzc5px3]12th of Apr[/b:5mzc5px3] - Honeymoon begins
[b:5mzc5px3]15th of Apr[/b:5mzc5px3] - Review phase B starts
[b:5mzc5px3]18th of Apr[/b:5mzc5px3] - Honeymoon ends

Congrats again. I figured it was such. My honeymoons were always very short, maybe because I always immediately resolved to move on to the next path as quickly as possible and then just pushed on. Do what you feel is right and you will continue to do fine.

Welcome back! And good to have the whole thing confirmed, isn't it! Review over, on to the next bit. You know where you are. Your progress is interesting to read--thanks for spelling it all out. FWIW, my fruitions have never been textbook-like either. Oh, and before I forget, congratulations!

Congrats Nick - Fantastic effort. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_biggrin.gif" alt="" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Thanks! I have no rush to start the next path, it will start when the time is right.

Also, due to a family visit, I'll spend a lot less time doing formal practice over the next few weeks, and a lot more tasting the fruit and training in morality. Resolved to not get below a hard minimum of 30 minutes per day. I knew since months ago that this visit would take place, and got quite stressed and pushed to get it done before they came, otherwise there would be a lot of backsliding due to lack of practice. This might have been one of the subconscious motivations to finish it.

Honeymoon is over, but review continues. I'm yet to hit solidity. For now, things vibrate like crazy and the crown is quite active at some times of the day.

Fruitions got boring. I don't feel that I mastered them, but the entrance to them just got less intense, like meh. I think I had all three types of them in the last week: the one at the third eye, the one at the crown with buzzing energy, and the one at the crown with a hook pulling up beneath it. Not sure what door is which.

Resolved not to attain any more Fruitions and to go for Second Path as soon as possible. Doing 2x15 minutes these days, that's all life affords. Today it was pretty solid, except for the fast vibrating visual field that is the same as was in EQ. The solid stuff was many itches in the face, that don't move, vibrate or anything, and also third eye area pressure that stays put. It's fun to see old and new territory at the same time, seeing the visuals vibrate while tactile sensations are solid.

Things that used to vibrate like crazy in the late part of the last path are fading. Other things which are presenting now start solid and are starting to vibrate but very in a very clumsy and gross way, like back in April last year. Sat at lunchtime for30 mminutes and had solid itches that start to vibrate clumsily and slowly after a while, and pleasant intense third eye tension that starts to buzz grossly and fast after a while. The visual field is solid again (sometimes) , at last. Overall feeling was very peaceful, and didn't have any urgency for the sit to finish.

Sits are very meh. Doing 1x30 mins at lunchtime the last couple days. It feels like a combination of Low EQ from first path re third eye tension and calm and chilled out pleasantness (feeling I could spend hours sitting like that), and early A&amp;P in that there is a lot of gross flashes of light.
I get easily concentrated and easily distracted, if that makes sense. Like, when I apply myself to the meditation, I get one-pointed really well, like my attention has a lot more horsepower than before. But it's also very easy to get bored of applying myself to the meditation and I just space out or get lost in thought. I am surprisingly chilled out about that when I come back from la la land, I used to be pretty hard on myself.

Sits still generally calm and pleasant. Main features are still solid itches that occasionally start to vibrate for a minute and then go back to solidity; distractability, lack of a desire to investigate aggressively, mind powerful and slippery as explained above, some occasional surges of energy, some periods where the visual field brightens up significantly, and some periods where it starts flashing. These last two occur in a minority of the time.

One interesting thing I noticed today (maybe a transition between 3Cs to early A&amp;P territory?) was that all the itches that had been present through the first 30 minutes of the sit (maybe 5 or 6 in different parts of the body) got [u:2r453bcu]suddenly[/u:2r453bcu] covered by a soothing blanket and I wasn't itchy anymore. Shortly thereafter the visuals started flashing.

I'm practicing 1x30 or 2x15 depending on the day. Today I did 45 minutes as my life allowed it, but that's probably not going to be repeated in the coming days.

Sits are getting very pleasant, not too vibratory, and the mind is extremely distracted these days. Samatha is seductive again so I sometimes indulge that desire. No clear jhanas, might be all the formed ones, might be none.

Lots of doubt. Letting go of the sotapanna badge in earnest. Feeling little suffering comparing the same situations before and after, this means that this path has been a worthwhile one and it leads to a good place, but I'm doubtful about comparing this to the sutta sotapannas, MCTB 4th pathers with sutta arahats and so on. Intellectually understanding that this path is probably not the one that the Buddha taught as it seems that here we are redefining the attainments' criteria to fit our experiences. Feeling very tempted to practice and journal without giving names to experiences. Probably this kind of doubt will fade. All in all, I'm still practicing to get to the same place, although I now prefer to call it MCTB 4th rather than arahantship. I do not believe that sutta arahantship is something that we can attain.

On the other hand, I see myself using the maps to &quot;plan&quot; when to slack off. I'm slacking off right now, unconsciously and uncontrollably trying to draw out this period of normalcy, putting off the A&amp;P event and therefore the dukkha ñanas. I'm letting go of the sotapanna badge, but I'm seemingly clinging to the maps as much as I used to.

Sutta Arhat is just as much if a label as MCTB 4th path. They are iust labels. Push your beliefs about what is what out of the way, do the practice, and see where it leads. You are doing great so far, but having any expectations about what each stage will be like ends up being a hinderance in the long run. Keep up the good work.

Not much is happening on the meditation front. When meditating I feel like going through the motions and getting somewhere nice, but the motivation isn't there. I went on holidays for a few days and I didn't practice even once while away. From Thursday to Tuesday, the total time spent meditating was 15 minutes, and no practice off the cushion. Stopping the practice doesn't make me feel guilty as it once did. From time to time I stop and check in with myself and appreciate how everything is deeply OK, even if it isn't on the surface. That is, I still see that my mood swings (a less loaded term than &quot;cycling&quot;) but I'm fine with that.

I doubt that this is the same path that the Buddha taught and that people here get enlightened to the standards described by the Buddha, so I might be just doing a practice influenced by Buddhism rather than a Buddhist practice. It's not that I'm a Buddhist, but what makes me &quot;care&quot; about this stuff is that Buddhism is validated by 2,500 years of history whereas this stuff is validated by a much more homogeneous and small group. &quot;Care&quot; goes between quotes, because regardless of the label I use, be it Buddhism or Folkism or Ingramism, I'm convinced by my own experience that this practice does some very nice things to the brain. And this doubt won't lead me away from the practice. This lack of motivation will pass away at some point.

Today I sat for half an hour, did some concentration, went up to some absorption. In the last 10 minutes, I went in and out from a very pleasant physical absorption, maybe one minute in, one out.

I'm leaving all this doubt behind. My thoughts aren't any different from last time, but I just don't care that much. I'm keeping the practice and seeing where it leads.

Lately I've been distractable and tired. Not sleeping as many hours as I'd wish, and I'm attributing my crappy concentration to that. Family visit is over, I guess I'll get back to a more normal schedule now, and possibly start with more serious vipassana.
In the last couple days, I've been too tired to investigate reality, and settled for samatha. Getting to some nice but unstable concentration states where I can see the jhana factors follow the progression as in 1J--&gt;2J--&gt;3J--&gt;4J, but without being very absorbed (compared to previous experiences), in fact I alternate between these states and the hindrance of the day, either sleepiness or embeddedness in trains of thought. The world is solid, both on and off the cushion.
Feeling like a beginner again, but happier. That's how I feel these days. I don't see anything special or awe-inspiring in my brain like I saw a month ago. Thoughts are impersonal but I don't pay attention to that, shyness is there as it always was, my behavioural patterns haven't changed - or if they did it's too subtle to tell - and the other metrics (compassion, concentration, faith, etc.) seem to be near the previous baseline. I'm somewhat less obsessed about maps. But the change I see most is that the happiness baseline is higher up. It's subtle, but definitely noticeable.

All of this is very normal. You will go through this over and over again.

A couple days ago things starting to vibrate and become more energetic. Stronger sensations at the brow, sometimes so blissful it's actually too much. Pretty distracted, although not as much since I've started to sleep more and better.

Not incredibly motivated to sit, but I'm still managing to put in 1x30 or 2x15 a day.

Haven't done noting for quite a while, these days I'm doing mostly samatha. I keep moving back and forth between very pleasant absorptions and thought streams. When moving back to being mindful, I don't feel irritation. Path related mood swings aren't very apparent. I think about meditation a lot less and note phenomena a lot less off the cushion, although I might have some spontaneous mini-insights or short depersonalisation episodes every now and again.

Today I got into an absorption that was extremely pleasant and I felt gratitude about that. Two things that hadn't happened in a while with that intensity.

Motivation is coming back slowly. I'm doing less jhana and more vipassana, but still not doing much noting, I'm mostly noticing without labeling. Still distractable but a little bit more engaged.

Lunchtime sit, 15 minutes noting. Quite a few solid itches appearing here and there. Not much pain going on. It's easy to focus on the itches, but hard to keep the focus on the physical sensation of the itch without getting distracted. I'd actually welcome some more intense itches. If I do keep the focus for long enough, I see it start to fire some irritating and not very consistent vibrations.

Evening sit, 45 minutes mostly noticing with a bit of noting. The sit started evolving pretty much as the lunchtime sit, it was laborious to keep going, had to fight/notice a desire to end the sit quite a few times. Then, with 10 minutes left I went through a couple minutes of nice sideways-moving lights with no intention to quit. Then that went away and I went back to the same negativity towards the sit. A few not very intense vibrations would appear every now and then at one or both index fingers, lasting for a couple minutes.

Just sat for 45 minutes. First time in a while when I can actually say I was well rested. Approximate chronology: counted 3x10 outbreaths, then 2x10 inbreaths, start noting, some very clear flashing lights at the lower part of the visual field, irritation at hearing others talk in the other room, a sudden noise outside startles me and the body reacts but the mind stays focused, a solid annoying itch in my face on which I focus, it vibrates a little and then goes away, exhilaration, gratitude, spaciousness, pleasant tension at the brow (which remained for the rest of the sit), mind gets very scattered and it gets hard to focus on anything, stays like that for a couple minutes, then it gets clear again and malleable, mind feeling at ease and expansive, desire to stop noting and just notice stuff, not out of laziness but out of the feeling that noting was too coarse. Visual field and mind fell for a couple seconds into a state very similar to the entrance to fruition (expansive and trance-like) but it didn't feel like one. Then got distractable very embedded in mapping thoughts and reporting thoughts, surprised at having the sit evolve like this. Every now and then coming back from these distractions to investigate, it all felt peaceful and not much was happening. Near the end of the sit, both index and middle fingers and one foot started buzzing persistently (neutral vedana), and the tension at the brow started to vibrate/throb at a low frequency. At this point, every now and again I'd feel a tiny wave of coolness coming out of the brow, and that effect is still felt now as I type (30 minutes later). A couple times in the last 15 minutes I also felt a sensation of having the Axis vertebra being pulled up.

Speculation corner: Feeling it's way too soon for some phenomena to show up, as I identify them with the EQ ñana. Weird. Time will tell what they actually are.

Just sat for 30 minutes. Got to the place I described in the last post, where everything is mellow, gently vibratory, and I get lazy and distractable, but got there faster. Maybe 5 minutes into the sit. The crazy thing is that it resembles a lot some of the sessions that I had in 1st path EQ, but this time it's like I know what to do to go forward - which is, stop trying to go forward! In the middle of the sit I got something I hadn't got in the last session I described, which is crown activity. It's resembles in kind the last few days leading to 1st, but the energy is not as clearly defined, and I'm not getting excited or agitated or jumping the gun. I care less and am more distracted.

Amazed at the speed this is evolving. I don't quite believe it is so.

Off the cushion, feeling pretty dark nightish. Feeling tired despite good rest. Feeling dumber, less articulate, and going about my day feels laborious. Not feeling sad though.

I had this same pattern shortly after first path review. I thought I was already up in EQ again. I was like, this is going way fast!!!

You may very well be, but it ended up that I was finally taking the smoothed-outness of the time after review for the later stages, when it was really the early nana's again. I think Jayson pointed this out to me, but I didn't want to believe him at the time. It wasn't till I hit 3C's and A&amp;P again that I realized that he was right. I'll try to find it in my old log.

Actually is was A&amp;P not EQ: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href=" kennethfolkdharma.com/forum/viewtopic.ph...mp;t=2&start=120 ">viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2&start=120

Thanks for the reference Russell, it is probably not EQ judging from what I've seen in the last couple days. That means one thing for a map geek: one can't rely on the energetic markers of one path to mark the same stages on another path.

Going through the day feels even more laborious. Doing what I always do is many times heavier. Wondering how much of that can be attributed to bad sleep and some recent changes in my personal life unrelated to meditation. But the feeling is that I only want the day to end and go back to bed. Depending on the bias of the reader, it can sound like dark night, depression, classic stress or insufficient rest. Feeling strangely better now that I've meditated.

Just sat for 30 minutes at work after going to the gym. Abysmal concentration for the first 15 minutes, spent them bouncing between dreamland and a feeling of frustration and helplessness (due to the lack of control). In the next five minutes I tried jhana with some success and managed to stay awake contemplating the sukha. When I felt like I was losing it again and going back to dreaminess, I remembered what I used to do to fight sleepiness in the ol' days, noting out loud, so I did it for the rest of the sit and it worked great. Still sleepy but not in dreamland. Almost all the notes were negative: frustration, desire to stop, irritation. Some neutral and positive ones like hardness, brow tension, flashing lights, vibrations in the fingers. I don't care about the content of the notes too much, but it felt like doing an actual technique rather than struggling helplessly.