batgap.com Interview of Daniel Ingram

Never thought I would see this. Cool! batgap.com/daniel-ingram/

That's great, thanks!

I am not done listening to this but I wish this interview was actually more about Daniel and less about Rick. About 30-40 minutes in Rick starts carrying on about how he believes there is a collective movement of people waking up and it is going to solve all of the world's problems. Anyways, Daniel argues his points but Rick won't let it go for 45 mins so far. I am hoping that they change subjects soon or I am jumping ship!

Yeah, I'm just after that point. Daniel has skillfully segued the conversation to topics nearer and dearer to his own heart and book. We'll see if Rick manages to get back to his global awakening theory. He still has time -- there are 50 minutes left to go in the interview.

Whew, good to know it gets back on track.

Russell wrote: About 30-40 minutes in Rick starts carrying on about how he believes there is a collective movement of people waking up and it is going to solve all of the world's problems. Anyways, Daniel argues his points but Rick won't let it go for 45 mins so far. I am hoping that they change subjects soon or I am jumping ship!

I haven't listened yet but this is hilarious. For me this kind of thinking accompanied a wave of evangelical zeal after stream-entry and in retrospect it seems obviously delusional, a case of overwhelming personal enthusiasm generating an enthusiastic world outlook. It's possible more people are waking up as a percentage of the human population than ever before, but this trend follows (and is possibly causally related to) the world totally going to shit.

BATGAP is a really wonderful project and I'm very grateful it exists but Rick does have a tendency to always do this... start discussing his own theories and experiences and trying to shoehorn whatever the particular guest is saying to fit them. Looking forward to listening to this when I have time...

There's a comment in the bat gap forum claiming Daniel Ingram is not a proper representative of the theravadan tradition and that he's an unskillful megalomaniac.

What's that all about?

There's a comment in the bat gap forum claiming Daniel Ingram is not a proper representative of the theravadan tradition and that he's an unskillful megalomaniac.

What's that all about?

Sometimes people take religion very, VERY SERIOUSLY.

The last half hour is Dan at an endearing best I hadn't been aware of before-- so bubbly and enthusiastic. Even humble in a totally unassuming way.

Yes! I am glad I stuck through the middle part!

My wife and I just finished this last night. We're both late Gen-X so we related to the generational gap between Rick's "society evolving to higher level" boomer worldview and Daniel's "spirituality helps but the world can be a bit of shitstorm with no guarantees" worldview. We had some great talks during it --- when one of his comments would trigger one of our comments, and then we'd have to put the video on hold for 20 minutes as we hashed it out.

My wife hasn't been interested in 90% of the spirituality books/videos she sees me pouring over (edit: frankly because she is smarter than me and know it's mostly a waste of time)... but now she wants to read Daniel's book! It's a dharma miracle!!

shargrol wrote: [...] Rick's "society evolving to higher level" boomer worldview and Daniel's "spirituality helps but the world can be a bit of shitstorm with no guarantees" worldview.

It would seem that on the large scale Dharma can only live by being embodied in culture (how else?). As it has self-spawned here and there in history, it has been phagocytized by some aspects of it, tipically superstitious. Pragmatic Dharma lives embodied in Science! in some time, given to it a little time to mature, it will perhaps come to be called Scientific Dharma, and invade the world! It will be probably matter of centuries, but I believe, this period will then be called the "dark era" of humanity.

Finally saw this through to the end. I'm a boomer, but I tend to agree more with Daniel than with Rick on the "society is evolving" thing. I got the impression that Daniel was willing to discuss it, and thought what he had to say was interesting. But when they reached the last 30 minutes, I realized just how much better it would have been to give him more time on the descriptions of the paths.

Agree, Laurel-- interviewer limitations were fairly obvious. The BATGAP guy is pretty set in his TM frame, so he does better with those who share that background and view.

It sounded like it was the first conversation between the two they had. I think maybe it would have looked a lot different if they talked before, because maybe the slaying of straw men would have been out of the way, I'm just thinking maybe we would have heard more about making awakening accessible, which is something both Rick and Daniel chorused is desirable. I think maybe we'd have more discussion about What It Takes, which is what I'd like to see.

I don't see that talked about and I think pragmatic dharma is basically otiose at times, where there are many people who would benefit from it but can't because the criteria that applies to them isn't spoken about in a direct pragmatic way. These are people who "need to do it for a while"....

There's a lot of appreciation for tacking through the DN and sticking it out when you get to High EQ, but where's all the appreciation for mind & body? "Just note it".... I feel like I wasted about two years because I had no appreciation for the territory I was in.

I liked it a lot, including the generation-spanning parts.

To me, Rick's take is less about an ultimate ideal state and more about an optimistic, empowering mindset for activism right now. As with any goal, improving the world can seem a bit overwhelming, just like "reaching" enlightenment can.

So the trick is to bring it into the present, by doing things now, be it training is wisdom, mental stability, or moral/ethical behavior. And to me at least, it makes a huge difference if I assume that what I'm doing now actually embodies what I wish to attain, i.e. it is possible and plausible. People like Daniel standing up and stating that they did it are really empowering. There is very little of that in the spiritual bubble, but also very little in the activist bubble, unfortunately. Guys like Rick who try to integrate these two areas are pretty rare in their own right.

Cheers,
Florian

This was a terrific interview. Many, many great explorations. A bit long for me, but worth it.