The Art of Just Sitting

Chris Marti wrote: Follow up question for Shargrol, who said:

"I don't think of Zen as non-intellectual understanding. I think of it as poetry-code for deep, nuanced understanding."

A deep, nuanced understanding of what?

Is there cheese in that trap? I'm hungry.

What kind of forehead slap are you looking for? Understanding that passage you quoted or something else?

Non-Zen non-master tip: if you have time to read, you have time to "practice" instead. Is your current practice boring that you are trying to find new and interesting things to explore? Are you trying to avoid being with what's coming up in your practice by finding a new game to play?

"Just sitting" is pretty much just sitting.

It also doesn't work unless you sit in full lotus with a slight smile on your face.

Russell wrote: It also doesn't work unless you sit in full lotus with a slight smile on your face.

The smile has to be sincere, too.

My personal opinion and experience is that "just sitting" type practice is generally more useful later, after one has worked through some solid noting. Mostly because "just sitting" before that generally ends up being "sitting there thinking about a lot of shit". The earlier phases of practice do tend to work better if one does techniques that give one something to do (mantras, noting, visualizations, prayers, rituals, etc.). Later, practices that involve "not doing stuff" are more useful.

For what it's worth, I think one flavor of of wide-open sitting practice, which blends just sitting and noting, is:

Get settled (10 mins or so)
Don't change anything or do anything special
Intend to experience the experiental nature of this moment. (Not get the right answer, just experience what actually is here, not "This Moment", but the moment that happens to be.)
Include body sensations and the mindstream in the definition of "this moment". Don't care what shows up in either. No right or wrong sensations or thoughts.
Allow your attention to relax sorta panoramically. If it's already sorta open, no need to achieve some particular state of panoramic-ness, just rest.
Enjoy it a little, it's allowed.


To create tiny little guardrails...
If you feel very tight, relax a little.
If you feel very dull, experience the actual sensations of breathing (lots of sensations, all over the body and mind, are linked to breathing, so no big deal, just generally know that you're breathing, no specific focus).
If you feel angsty - that's probably related to some kind of judgement, a mild form of "practice thought". Note "practice thoughts" if you are having thoughts about practice -- how to practice, judgement of practice, doubts about practice, excitement about practice. Just sitting it isn't about practice, it's about creating time for seeing what happens when you allow body and mind to what they do.


No big deal. Just an exploration of being with these actual moments, no perfection quest, no enlightenment quest.

Tom, I defer to others... you can see how what I'm suggesting is basically noting "non-verbally" but it quickly becomes daydreaming if it isn't right for you. So Danger Danger Danger!

Case 1 of the Digital Cliff Record, "Shargol's Cheese".

Layman Shargrol addressed the assembly thus, "I don't think of Zen as non-intellectual understanding. I think of it as poetry-code for deep, nuanced understanding."

Master Marti overheard and demanded "A deep, nuanced understanding of what?"

Shargrol replied "Is there cheese in that trap? I'm hungry."

Master Marti clicked the Smile button and said "There is only my bottle of whine."

The hua t'ou, did Layman Shargrol go hungry, or not?

(The scribe is one of the awed and befuddled among the assembly.)

Mark Peacock wrote: Case 1 of the Digital Cliff Record, "Shargol's Cheese".

Layman Shargrol addressed the assembly thus, "I don't think of Zen as non-intellectual understanding. I think of it as poetry-code for deep, nuanced understanding."

Master Marti overheard and demanded "A deep, nuanced understanding of what?"

Shargrol replied "Is there cheese in that trap? I'm hungry."

Master Marti clicked the Smile button and said "There is only my bottle of whine."

The hua t'ou, did Layman Shargrol go hungry, or not?

(The scribe is one of the awed and befuddled among the assembly.)

Brilliant!!

This whole thread needs to be moved to the "drunk posts" thread.

shargrol wrote: For what it's worth, I think one flavor of of wide-open sitting practice, which blends just sitting and noting, is...

(btw - that's a very nice instruction.)

Tom Otvos wrote:

Chris Marti wrote: Unsolicted and probably somewhat aggravating advice to Tom -- you should really be leveraging your recent insights from your noting practice and keep noting. There is real insight and fruit to be obtained there. I fear that you discount the importance of those revelations. You should not. Those insights are what will eventually make "just sitting" worthwhile and sensible for you.

Just sayin'

A cypress in the garden

The rabbit's ear attracts daisies.

In my case, any such smile would be a sincere grimace of pain.