BG Interview of David Chapman

For the record my comments pertained exclusively to the popularization of tantric-style practices involving playing with identity, utilizing archetypal energies/identities in order to discover/cultivate specific qualities and capacities in the bodymind. And my comments were in reference to the possibility (and to the fact in some cases) of mis-using that methodology when it isn't deployed in the context of an experiential understanding or realization of "emptiness", as in, the transparency of identities and interconnection of energies, including the ethical implications of that.

As for popularizing other dharmic methodologies I think by and large there is no issue since if people misuse or misunderstand the techniques they're likely to just keep doing what they've always been doing, just sitting down in a quiet room for half an hour a day, whereas with the energetic/archetypal techniques there seems to be (over time, with dedicated practice) the possibility of dramatic developments of charisma and personal energy. The same could potentially be said for any form of practice that is heavily involved in archetypal/energetic work in which that practice lacks the emptiness+compassion component.

For the record my comments pertained exclusively to the popularization of tantric-style practices involving playing with identity, utilizing archetypal energies/identities in order to discover/cultivate specific qualities and capacities in the bodymind. And my comments were in reference to the possibility (and to the fact in some cases) of mis-using that methodology when it isn't deployed in the context of an experiential understanding or realization of "emptiness", as in, the transparency of identities and interconnection of energies, including the ethical implications of that. ...whereas with the energetic/archetypal techniques there seems to be (over time, with dedicated practice) the possibility of dramatic developments of charisma and personal energy. The same could potentially be said for any form of practice that is heavily involved in archetypal/energetic work in which that practice lacks the emptiness+compassion component.


-jake

I think the other potential "bad" outcome is that one can get very, very uncomfortable, to the point of not being able to handle it. Energy practices and deity practices and so on can sometimes be extremely disturbing, produce fairly serious physical discomfort, lead to anxiety and fear, etc. even when done with a teacher. If a person doesn't have a solid foundation of practice to bring to the experiences, the chances of being able to learn from it are quite slim, and one may be "thrown off a cliff" spiritually and end up quite shaken. In my experience it's fairly unlikely to have much happen at all if one is merely a dabbling beginner. Where it is more challenging is with people who have had enough spiritual opening (by accident or through previous practices) that they are sensitive to these things, and then start playing around on their own without guidance.

Ona, I agree! excellent point. Not that these sorts of problems can't arise in any sort of practice, particularly if there is a certain kind of drive or obsessiveness. But with practices that specifically target these aspects of our human being, the risk seems far greater.

Chris, I think that's a good point. But ultimately I see that as a technological amplification of tendencies already present in 3d life. People have all sorts of mechanisms, psychological and behavioral, for avoiding different points of view and encapsulating themselves in a bubble of self-reinforcing assumptions (for many people this is called "having opinions and friends" ).

In a sense, the very act of entertaining a concept creates a little bubble that can be very resistant if not impervious to difference and otherness, as we know from practice. But yeah, the interwebs makes it possible to really amplify this tendency, as well as head in the opposite direction too, right, just by virtue of the greater numerical base to work with.

And what if one finds one's way to the very edge of one's 3D teacher's bubble of assumptions? A lot of suffering and confusion can arise when a practitioner outgrows the framework of a particular group, teacher and teaching, or simply discovers that there isn't as much resonance as was assumed at first with that paradigm or those personalities.

I don't have any answers. If there were a teacher in my physical vicinity (or available by skype) that I knew of whose approach really attracted me, I would be engaged with that. Barring that, I use what's available to the degree that it seems relevant and applicable. Ultimately I have to be honest with myself about my own limitations and habitual tendencies, as well as my buddhanature.

I figure if I see the flow of my daily life as a string of moments of irritation, anger, pride, defensiveness, competitiveness, lazyness, avoidance, desire, broken by and/or included within an open dimension of innate clarity & well-being, interconnection & intimacy, and if I see stable, long term gradual change in terms of my capacity to act unburdened by that karmic patterning in a way that is expressive of that open dimension & intimacy, via a stable and steady ongoing reduction in the feeling of difference or mutual exclusivity of those two poles of my being, then i must be on the right track . I would apply the same criteria if I were working with a 3D or skype teacher.

Dammit Bones, I want answers!

"So, what is all this tantra stuff. Would somebody like to offer
up their favourite net resources? And per Kate's prerequisite (which I
recall having read in the Aro book too), I don't expect I'll be trying
it any time soon but I am curious about the lingo."

Tomo, I don't know of any better resources than Aro and Namkhai Norbu-- and some of Lama Yeshe [but not his dour, pious sidekick/successor Lama Zopa, unfortunately]. As I recall he has an excellent little book called "Tantra." Supposing that you want something more relatable than 'tales of magic and mystery from old Tibet.' All of those sources are not at all obscure; all provide a contextualization that begins with what you can see is true of your own mind and body.

And none of them is going to tell you how, if you decide you want to experiment with tummo or phowa, to do it at home unsupervised. The thing is, we're in the habit of being ignorant of our bodies' capacities. So we think-- hell, what can go wrong? Some of Tantra is high-power yoga; so what can go wrong are blood pressure effects; heart rhythm effects; seizure activity. And, one of my teachers says, permanent traumatic head injury-- from having been seated injudiciously at practice.

With that caveat, I think wanting to know more about these innate capacities of mind and body is a great thing; it motivates my own explorations in Asian medicine modalities. I tend to overemphasize caution because I don't see us as being particularly respectful left to our own devices. I have learned this much, in the last couple of decades: 'attention must be paid.'

I have followed it a bit, but never really took up the practice. I already have some other kinds of energy work exercises I do (yogic breathing and chakra stuff taught to me by a friend). I do have a bit of in inclination to learn more qi gong sometime. When I have done it at workshops or with friends who do it its very calming and clarifying. I have plenty of energy (sometimes too much), and don't need to generate more; rather I find the grounding and balancing work that I get out of qi gong is really helpful. But I never can remember the exercises clearly enough to do them on my own, and haven't found the same sequences on a tape or video.

I'm no scholar on the subject, so others may have a nice proper definition, but what seems to be the case is that tantric practices take all the stuff of life and make it a deliberate part of practice, using symbols, rituals, exercises and so on as well as perhaps less formally. So that energetic phenomena, devotional practices, deities and spirits, visions, rituals, art, music, sexuality, death, etc are not "side effects" to just be observed neutrally or ignored, but material to work with and use towards transformation, wisdom, etc.

Someone else have a better way of explaining?

Thanks, I do recall those videos and have watched them. I was specifically referring to not remembering a certain qi gong practice I liked. But maybe tummo is knocking on the door?