great interviews

I listened to this interview the other day with a guy named Jeff Foster:

http://batgap.com/jeff-foster/

It's long, but boy is it full of good stuff. The guy talks very candidly about his own spiritual practice, really painful parts of his own life, his awakening, the traps he fell into as a teacher, and his evolving understanding of life, the universe and everything. The honesty of it was really refreshing.

On the same site there's a similar interview with Adyashanti which is particularly interesting in that you get to hear him talk to a colleague, as opposed to speaking to an audience of students. He's likewise very candid about his own experiences and the challenges and traps that can be experienced after awakening.

Highly recommended.

Listening to the Adyashanti one now: excellent! 'The spirit of inquiry' as the foundation of teaching-- YES!

The need to 'keep it fresh;' teacher/student engaging in intuitive communion-- these statements reflect what some modern poets have usefully said: 'make it new'; 'only connect.'

I am having a refreshed appreciation that Adyashanti transcends the Advaita mannerisms to which I react badly; as well as a sort of precious cryptic Zenspeak that some some hardliners seem to favor.

OOhh-- 'it's very easy to become a nondual fundamentalist'-- anybody else noticed that?

The interviewer is very insightful, too.

Jeff Foster talks about that issue too - how he realized his initial tendency to do the nondual fundamentalist thing was very arrogant and unskillful, and a sort of condescension (Edited for clarity): the "Buddha at the Gas Pump" concept is about the idea of meeting people where they are without condescension; reminding me of the "unconditional high regard" we were discussing in another thread. He talks very candidly about how he changed his approach despite being fairly well known and well established as a teacher.

Jeff Foster talks about that issue too - how he realized his initial tendency to do the nondual fundamentalist thing was very arrogant and unskillful, and a sort of condescension, as well as being downright untrue. He talks very candidly about how he changed his approach despite being fairly well known and well established as a teacher.

-ona

I'm curious about what is meant by "nondual fundamentalist." Could anyone expand on that?

I'm curious about what is meant by "nondual fundamentalist." Could anyone expand on that?


-michaelmonson

If you listen to the interviews they seem to use the term to mean nondual teachers (that is teachers in various traditions influenced by Advaita, using self-inquiry, etc. rather than teachers in Buddhist traditions) who get really hung up on using certain language and concepts, even if it doesn't make sense or is hurtful to their students. They are more interested in being really stuck on their view and vocabulary than on being genuine. They might do stuff like mock students' questions by pointing out there's no one here to ask the question, or keep repeating that there's no one to be enlightened and no need to seek awakening, even if for a certain person that is not the answer that will help them. So a sort of blind regurgitation of formulaic teaching, rather than being genuine and really listening to what students need and being creative in addressing them in helpful ways.

They might do stuff like mock students' questions by pointing out there's no one here to ask the question, or keep repeating that there's no one to be enlightened and no need to seek awakening, even if for a certain person that is not the answer that will help them.

This is kind of the heart of it, right? I don't really understand the whole thing but I've always like how COMPLETELY secular it seems.

Three or four years ago I watched over and over again three or four videos of this nondual guy named, I think, Jim Parsons? Most of what he said made no sense and meant nothing at all to me and it seemed to him as well because he was struck by how impossible it was to talk about his practice/realization/whatever. It all kind of came down to him sort of waving his hands in the air and saying stuff like "... just ... this ... "

I love the truth that there is no one to be enlightened, you know? However, of course, I suspect that a side effect of just having that forced fed is spiritual bypassing and a denial of the fact that there are two sides to every coin and that there is also, in fact, a person to be enlightened and happy and wise and free and fulfilled and alive all at the same time.

I mean, or what is asking the question? Who is answering it? Who or what is suffering and desperately wants relief from suffering? What is more real than that?

Really do listen to the Jeff Foster one. I do him an injustice with my clumsy summary. It's really worth a good listen in his own words.

Really do listen to the Jeff Foster one. I do him an injustice with my clumsy summary. It's really worth a good listen in his own words.

-ona

I will and then I will write something non-pithy.

I'm curious about what is meant by "nondual fundamentalist." Could anyone expand on that?

I can think of a brilliant example over at KFD-- for awhile, until he blasted off in an extremely vivid huff. Or what for a lesser mortal would be a huff. In his case, of course, we have to take his word for it-- there was 'no-one there' to be huffing and puffing.

I'm curious about what is meant by "nondual fundamentalist." Could anyone expand on that?
I can think of a brilliant example over at KFD-- for awhile, until he blasted off in an extremely vivid huff. Or what for a lesser mortal would be a huff. In his case, of course, we have to take his word for it-- there was 'no-one there' to be huffing and puffing.


-kategowen

That was snippy, Kate. I hereby call you on it. Because I can, and you're my friend.

I'm here.
And there.

That was snippy, Kate. I hereby call you on it. Because I can, and you're my friend.

-ona

She is talking about a guy who posted all the time on KFD who was really into this whole idea that none of us existed and it created a lot of really odd posts and complicated arguments and he used to get really angry. He especially hated it if anyone commented on his posts. Then he left.

I think she knew that I would know who/what she was talking about and that it would be a good example of a "nondual fundamentalist."

She is talking about a guy who posted all the time on KFD who was really into this whole idea that none of us existed and it created a lot of really odd posts and complicated arguments and he used to get really angry. He especially hated it if anyone commented on his posts. Then he left.


-michaelmonson

I know who she's talking about. I just think it's rude and inappropriate to snipe at specific individuals, especially "behind their backs". One can discuss the subject without pointing to specific people. I might make some exceptions for very well-known and established "public figures", such as Ram Dass or Adyashanti or Genpo Roshi or whoever, much as it's one thing to talk about celebrities or politicians, another to talk about our neighbors, colleagues and friends.

I know who she's talking about. I just think it's rude and inappropriate to snipe at specific individuals, especially "behind their backs". One can discuss the subject without pointing to specific people. I might make some exceptions for very well-known and established "public figures", such as Ram Dass or Adyashanti or Genpo Roshi or whoever, much as it's one thing to talk about celebrities or politicians, another to talk about our neighbors, colleagues and friends.

-ona

Huh ... I didn't know you were involved in KFD at that time or at all. Okay.

But, for some reason it didn't seem rude to me or like sniping, maybe I'm missing something?

Or maybe I'm being fussy.

Really do listen to the Jeff Foster one. I do him an injustice with my clumsy summary. It's really worth a good listen in his own words.

-ona

Of course I like this guy. He is saying what I've been thinking and saying for a couple of months now.

the waves keep
coming -that's not going to stop

sometimes people
suffer more than ever after an awakening experience

who's to
suffer?

the waves keep
coming

the beautiful thing about other people is that they aren't
always going to see you the way you want to be seen

non duality is the
easy part, relationships are what's hard

they still think i'm
their mother

life doesn't let you
get away with it

see what image of
yourself you are still defending

after nondual
awakening -- I was so shut off from life, everything

we like good clean
stories

everyone is trying
to come home

allow allow allow
allow allow (even fear)

Before stumbling into Buddhist Geeks, MCTB etc, I went through a little phase of listening to lots of Advaita teachers. One of them was Jeff Foster, but it was early after his awakening, and he was big into the "I am awareness" transpersonal identity. It's cool to hear him critiquing that and revealing the part of his post-awakening process that dealt with this. "You have to "know" a hell of a lot about yourself to be able to say 'I am no one'". I like that, he's pointing to all the presuppositions behind the transpersonal identity at the root of nondual fundamentalism! Very cool site, thanks for sharing

I also really like the part where both Foster and the questioner talk about simultaneously agreeing AND disagreeing with everything they hear. I'm right there with them.
And not.