when David Chapman and Brad Warner are reading the same book--

http://hardcorezen.blogspot.com/2011/09/making-of-buddhist-modernism.html

The quote below is from the Nishijima Nagarjuna translation that BW has been editing for lo, these many years...

"[When one exists independently, one can keep one’s attentive attitude and can speak from the balanced state.

In actual situations although nothing is shunned, all things and
phenomena can manifest themselves in the state of regulation.]

---
If a person can live in the state of being truly independent, that
person naturally prefers to keep an attentive attitude and can speak of
everything in a stable manner. We cannot shun anything. Our lives are
such that we are obliged to accept everything that occurs, whether we
like it or not. Yet if we can maintain this truly independent attitude,
it is possible for us to accept our circumstances in a balanced and
regulated way.

The real universe should manifest itself
clearly. If it were impossible for the real universe to manifest itself
clearly, then the real universe could never become clear at all. The
reason that the real universe does not seem to manifest itself clearly,
comes from the unbalanced situation of our autonomic nervous system.

I
am not a medical doctor or neurologist. But as a Buddhist teacher I
value the work of these scientists. Their findings and theories are
often useful in helping to clarify Buddhist philosophy and make it
comprehensible to today’s audiences by removing the air of mysticism
that has surrounded these teachings for far too long. I have come to
believe that what has been called satori
or “enlightenment” by Buddhist masters of the past can be expressed in
more contemporary terms as the balance of the autonomic nervous system. "

-- care to elaborate on 'floored', Chris?

[Nagarjuna has had a special place in my heart ever since Dan Ingram accused me of 'Nagarjunifying' the discussion of 'whether there are paths beyond fourth.']

I suspect I would like Nishijima for his cantankerous insistence on grounding practice in the body-- in the most literal, common-sense, physiological way. And for getting up the nose of those who want it all to be more rarefied than that. At least, as of now-- on down the road, who knows?

Yay-- me, too!

"Floored" because I've never ever thought of Nagarjuna's word shunyata ("emptiness" as commonly translated) as a substitute for "the balanced state." It changes meaning entirely, IMHO. At least it does for me. It takes it out of the head as a purely intellectual or conceptual thing and puts it squarely in the realm of what I seem to be experiencing right now. So "floored:" is the word that came to mind.

-cmarti

Color me baffled? Care to offer more thoughts on this?

This seems to me like a classic Vajrayana twist on the more Madhyamaka-based Mahayana teachings. The latter do everything they can to avoid describing emptiness as an experiential realization, because emptiness is not a thing to be grasped, and is thus ineffable.

But, the Vajrayana people think the opposite extreme is worse; specifically, that people will either conceive of emptiness as just some deep dark nihilistic void. So they point to what the realization of emptiness is like, rather than what it is not like.

Being that Zen and Vajrayana Buddhisms were both based on innovations within the Mahayana, it makes sense to me that a Zen teacher would translate/interpret a term like emptiness into they way the realization is experienced by human beings. "The Balanced State", in this regard, is a really nice pointer!

Ona, the substitution of "the balanced state" for the word "emptiness" changes what I've always thought Nagarjuna was getting at. It always seemed very intellectual, even thought it takes some realization to grok the meaning of "emptiness." That was more over the line toward concept than a phrase like "the balanced state" which implies to me some even handed-ness in view between the head (concepts) and the heart (sensation/feeling/body).

-cmarti

Chris,
Balance is very important to Nishijima's way of thinking. He has stated in his booklet "Introduction to Buddhism and the Practice of Zazen" that:

"In this peaceful and balanced state,we are in the state that is 'different from thinking.' ...
Zazen is the simplest form of action, and when we are practicing
Zazen we do not intentionally think about anything or concentrate
on our feelings and perceptions. We sit in a simple non-
discriminating state where our body-and-mind are balanced and
undivided" [p. 22-23].

He goes on to say that the human body achieves a balance between the sympathetic and parasympathetic portions of the autonomic nervous system in zazen, and:

"When the effect of the two systems on the organs is in balance, we are neither
ready to fight, nor ready to run away; we are in a normal state" [p. 23].

"It is this physical state of balance in the autonomic nervous system that give rise
to what we call a balanced body-and-mind" [p. 24].

"When we sit in Zazen, because we do not concentrate
on thoughts, or perceptions, our body-and-mind exist undivided
in the present moment. When our mind is in the ordinary state
and our autonomic nervous system is balanced, we are in the
“balanced state of body-and-mind” [p. 25].

So perhaps Nishijima chose to substitute "the balanced state" for "emptiness" because we moderns are so out of balance that emptiness seems more like suicide and less like a state we would wish to inhabit.

Mike "Gozen"

Would it be fair to say that the "balanced state" between the two nervous systems (as Nishijima Roshi points to in Gozen's quote) is something that sort of pops into experience the way the 3rd dimension kind of pops into experience when we focus our eyes?

If we only have one eye open, or if we cross our eyes, everything looks flat, but when both eyes are brought to focus together, then depth perception kicks in.

Similarly, when both nervous systems, mind and body (or "heart" and "head" as Chris explains them) are "balanced" would "shunyata" pop into experience?

You know, there's a little tweak I'd like to add: and that is, 'balance' sounds static, and the reality is profoundly dynamic-- like health. So that there is a superb fitness to respond to any eventuality, challenge, blessing. There's not some perfect peak achievement, not to be deviated from; there is perfectly appropriate responsiveness. A fluency to all the modulations of which the body/mind/spirit is innately capable.

[This is a reflection engendered by this week's reading and pondering-- which will demand a new thread.]

Would it be fair to say that the "balanced state" between the two nervous systems (as Nishijima Roshi points to in Gozen's quote) is something that sort of pops into experience the way the 3rd dimension kind of pops into experience when we focus our eyes?
If we only have one eye open, or if we cross our eyes, everything looks flat, but when both eyes are brought to focus together, then depth perception kicks in.
Similarly, when both nervous systems, mind and body (or "heart" and "head" as Chris explains them) are "balanced" would "shunyata" pop into experience?


-ianreclus

nice one, Ian!

You know, there's a little tweak I'd like to add: and that is, 'balance' sounds static, and the reality is profoundly dynamic-- like health. So that there is a superb fitness to respond to any eventuality, challenge, blessing. There's not some perfect peak achievement, not to be deviated from; there is perfectly appropriate responsiveness. A fluency to all the modulations of which the body/mind/spirit is innately capable.



-kategowen

Kate, this's awesome too Very well said.