Genpo Roshi's resignation statement:

Ahh I wanna read that when it's done Mike

1. Person likes meditating and being a yogi and gets good at it.
2. He or she sees that it's possible to make a living as a "teacher" and not have to show up for unpleasant jobs five or more mornings a week and be treated like shit.
3. He or she gets a few students and finds great ego satisfaction in being considered an enlightened teacher. He or she really likes being listened to and respected. It feels great.
4. This person gets more students and a little more ego pumping power. It feels even more great.
5. More students arrive. They love the teacher and the way he or she treats them as "special" students who are really gettng what he has to say. The ego gratification for the students is also huge. It feels great. Many of the students will believe anything the teacher says without question -- as long as he keeps telling them how special they are.
6. The students become fiercely loyal to the teacher, and even agree with the teacher when he or she says that money is now needed to support the teaching and the teacher, because, after all, the teacher is doing "important" work and should be able to at least "make a living."
7. Teacher is flying high now. The money is coming in, the love and respect is coming in, and, in his or her opinion, his students are gaining great benefits!
8. Teacher needs to keep the flow going. Marketing becomes a huge factor and various catch phrases and trainings are created and developed to distinguish the teacher from other, less enlightened teachers. The teacher is becoming something of a "product" with various things to sell.
9. Teacher hates to be disagreed with. After all, isn't the teacher doing wonderful things for the sake of all beings? How dare anyone question the teachers motives? Disagreeing with teacher is met with huge negative consequence either from the teacher, the other students or both.

Note this isn't about any one teacher. I think it is a common story. And it's not meant to be the plot of my imaginary novel.

Yup, sounds like the plot ;-( Oh well peoples this is how we be.

I hate to say it but that book has been written already:
[url]

-cmarti

Just to clarify, I think it would be an interesting novel to show the intereactions of someone used to be treated special as a spiritual teacher who ends up interacting with the opposite sex and with employers as just another person.

My nine-point list above was just a random thing I wrote about what can happen with teachers.

The American guru book looks good. I want it.

How about a novel that features someone who starts meditating and how that ultimately leads them not to fame and fortune but to the realization that they live an ordinary life filled with a previously hidden wonder and beauty. This person would also be kind to humans and animals and find out how truly valuable their practice was... but not in the way most people think. They would stay in their job and with their original wife and kids. They would lead an unremarkable life from any outsider's POV.

No worshipping followers.
No huge donations.
No super human powers.
But that would be really boring and, of course, no one would believe it.
<yawn>

-cmarti

No, that would be a good book too, if written just right. Could be lovely.

I hate to say it but that book has been written already:[url]

-cmarti

Well, speaking of both Andrew Cohen and Dennis Merzel, have you seen this video they did together on "The Teacher-Student Relationship?":





Extra creepy. I get suspicious of any teacher who hangs around with Cohen, especially when ideas about "spiritual authority" are shared between them.

-Jackson

I'm a post modern pluralist all the way.

What I don't seem to understand is why Cohen (and in this case, Merzel as well) can't reconcile having a deep concern and respect for as student as both an individual and a "vessel" for the dharma. To dichotomize that which is "higher" from that which is "lower," as Cohen insists in this video, is to assume a false hierarchy, and then justifying it by asserting that hierarchy is an observable truth. Yes, there are naturally occurring hierarchies in nature. But to not be able to engage in basic interpersonal relationships with others -- those that are not based on some kind of "I'm better than you" mentality -- is pathological to the core. As Mike has already pointed out, we don't get this kind of behavior from, say, a skillful music teacher. There is a clear difference in skill, but that doesn't mean the teacher has be lord it over the student.

And we're continuing to see just how this approach to teaching is fertile ground for all kinds of misconduct. It's just sad.

Look guys, this is pathological integral-level thinking/relating. That's why it rejects pluralism. Ken Wilber's whole history is of taking one position, then moving on to a higher cognitive point of view but in a dissacociated way which demonizes the earlier level. He has done this at least three times in his career, and all of his polemical attacks can easily be read as directed at his earlier positions. This shows something deeply wrong in his process of development. So of course he attracts and is attracted to these guys who are cognitively developed yet emotionally-socially immature, even perhaps rather pathological, charismatic leaders.

And this is the shadow side of their "shadow-work"-- there's always a potential excuse waiting in the wings for any selfish or hurtful behavior. Whenever caught they can simply declare they are "working on their shadows." THAT'S NOT SHADOW WORK. That's narcissistic rationalization.

I've had the privilege of meeting two long term practitioners of Jungian Psychology in my various collegiate adventures (and many new-agers who aped the terms without having a clue as to what it was really about), and in both cases the richness and spiritual/existential profundity of their having a living, evolving relationship with their "shadows"-- as well as other key facets of their psyches, bodies and worlds-- was obvious in their deep kindness and compassion and down-to-earth humanness. They were the very opposite of these domineering middle-aged children. They were mature and authentic adults. They remind me of the few under-the-radar Lamas I know who do what they say and say what they mean, no rationalizations, deceptions or manipulation. Frankly when I hear people like Genpo talking about their "shadows" all I see is an attempt to impress us with a facade of psychological insight which if they had in the first place they never would have gotten themselves into such disturbed situations!

Ugh. I couldn't get past the first sixty seconds! The other big difference between these kinds of "modern spiritual masters" and they few I've met that I actually trust is the latter have a living relationship with their own teachers. Hearing these pompous jerks talk about being respected-- you should really write that book, Mike. It would bring some much needed illumination to these dynamics! If you aren't gonna write it-- I will!

Ugh. I couldn't get past the first sixty seconds! The other big difference between these kinds of "modern spiritual masters" and they few I've met that I actually trust is the latter have a living relationship with their own teachers. Hearing these pompous jerks talk about being respected-- you should really write that book, Mike. It would bring some much needed illumination to these dynamics! If you aren't gonna write it-- I will!


-jake

I'm with you, Jake: a two-man circle of jerks. Ngak'chang Rinpoche, Namkhai Norbu-- Vajrayanists and Tibetans generally-- are spared this level of delusion by that 'living relationship with their own teachers.' It looks to me that the Hindu Advaitin 'realization by fiat' crowd is the most likely to go down this path to nowhere. I speculate that's because they have 'mastered' the inherent paradoxes of existence by lopping off the unruly bits, and conflating the rest into a godawful nonsense. It's amazing how much a clever, motivated person with a good ear for the vocabulary du jour can get away with calling 'Dharma.'

I don't know Chris.... I think there's a definite confluence between some sociological and psychological trends in the west, especially in the baby boom generation, and in certain kinds of Eastern spirituality. I think the point about having a living relationship with a teacher is important-- although it's just one peice of the puzzle, and can have its own drawbacks too. But the point is that it makes it difficult for this sort of thing to happen. There are examples of baby-boom western Lamas getting smacked into line by higher-ups in their orders for doing this sort of thing. There is no one who can do that for Genpo or for Andrew Cohen.

Pluses and minuses either way, and as I have been struggling to point out over on the KFD Genpo thread, all of these problems and the traditional safety mechanisms which are meant to contain them could be gradually made obsolete if the general level of socio-emotional maturity in our society were to be allowed to raise through education reform (which is the ONLY way to effect this shift on a large scale). Because Genpo and Cohen are NOTHING without their enablers. Such a shift seems all around beneficial in economic, cultural, political, ecological, health + wellness, and general species survivability terms. One side benefit will be no more spiritual cults/dysfunctional communities of these kinds.

I like the part where Genpo said that he was "sitting on my teachers head."
I bet he metaphorically sits on a lot of heads.

I'll admit that I feel very angry at Genpo and Cohen, so angry that I know it's about old old family of origin childhood stuff in me as much as it is a rational reaction to two men who behave very badly and who have abused many many people for their own satisfaction.

Know what I mean? I can just tell, I think, when my feelings go beyond whatever is really just going on to some new and special heights and depths. I really can't stand Genpo and if my habit of surrendering wasn't at the place it is right now, I'd probably be doing much more ranting about him.

Just that you RUINED the World, man (he says in disparaging hippy-drop out accent) with your hydrogen bombs and your plastic and your and your and all that other stuff and and--- and you know what I'm talking about, man!

But seriously though, your point's well taken. That's why I think the way forward is into a post-modern, de-institutionalized post-conventional mode. Not just for spirituality but for humanity, and for the sake of the natural environment too. We can't rely on authorities anymore cuz our problems are new. Our problems-- global problems-- are also in many cases, of human origin; we're not just responding to challenges in the environment in the 21st century, we're challenging it for example. And I think the sociological forces set in motion by the Baby Boomer generation released a lot of potential and began some deep explorations which have opened up the avenues for successfully navigating through this evolutionary bottleneck, and also have to give big props to you guys for helping shift the mainstream towards greater social justice, less racism sexism and homophobia and so on. Oh, and also thanks for organic food and veggie burgers. I don't care what anyone says, I love me a good veggie burger. There, I admitted it

"Oh, and also thanks for organic food and veggie burgers. I don't care what anyone says, I love me a good veggie burger. There, I admitted it "

You and me, both.

But I bet he ran with baby boomers. You can't blame him you guys must have led him astray

Well... mayyyyyybe. Not convinced. What with your quantum non-locality and such you could have exerted a retroactive temporal influence on the poor fellow. But I can anticipate your next objection: you're gonna claim you guys aren't responsible for quantum theory, right? I guess I'll just credit you with the veggiue burgers

Remember, baby boomers were born between about 1945 and 1958 or so. Born.