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ReWire app

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13 years 2 months ago #6884 by Tom Otvos
ReWire app was created by Tom Otvos
It seemed time to start a thread on the ReWire app that has recently come out because, presumably, a few of you have played with it by now. I know I have and while the programmer in me wants to change some stuff, I think it is pretty innovative, demonstrating some real out-of-the-box thinking.

That Shinzen Young and Vincent Horn endorse it says something (to me). What do you think?

-- tomo
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13 years 2 months ago #6885 by Jackson
Replied by Jackson on topic Re: ReWire app
I had a chance to play with it before it was released, because Vince was in the Portland area. We had a late breakfast with his friend Mike in Lake Oswego. Anyway, I thought it was fun. Though, I couldn't really hear the sound, so I was screwing up a lot! I haven't downloaded it yet, but perhaps I will now.

Anyone else try it out?
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13 years 2 months ago #6887 by Eran
Replied by Eran on topic Re: ReWire app
It's pretty nice. I played with it briefly before and got mine own copy a couple of days ago. I haven't used it enough to compare it to a meditation session, so it's hard to say how effective it is. Come to think of it, I'm not even sure I know what to expect of a "serious" rewiring session...

@tom: I already sent the team some feedback over twitter and they seem to appreciate that.
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13 years 2 months ago - 13 years 2 months ago #6890 by Iago
Replied by Iago on topic Re: ReWire app
How does it work? Like, specifically. Checked their website but it's all very generic.
Last edit: 13 years 2 months ago by Iago.
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13 years 2 months ago #6892 by Russell
Replied by Russell on topic Re: ReWire app
Didn't mean for this my first post over here, but regardless... The app is pretty cool. I mentioned it in a similar thread on KFD. I've tried using it for about 200+ minutes now and it works like this: You load up songs from your music on your iPhone like a playlist, set the amount of time you want to do a session for and the difficulty level and press start. What it does is it plays your music and randomly stops the songs. When the music stops you have to tap the screen, then it keeps playing. If you are too slow or you miss when it stops completely your phone will vibrate. It rates you on your accuracy and raction time.

In theory it plays on noticing the vanishing of sensations, so for me, when you first start, it feels a little edgy and dark night like in that I make some facial grimaces and strain a bit, but once you get going, it becomes very automatic and relaxing and almost impossible to lose concentration. Really, really cool and a good step in the right direction for this kind of stuff.
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13 years 2 months ago - 13 years 2 months ago #6893 by Jackson
Replied by Jackson on topic Re: ReWire app
There are two settings: (1) sound only; or (2) video with sound.

For sound only, the app plays the track and intermittently stops. When the sound stops, the player taps the screen. If the player waits too long to tap the screen (which varies based on the difficulty setting), the phone vibrates, providing immediate feedback.

For the video with sound setting, either the video or the sound will stop/vanish, and the player is to tap the screen in either instance. Waiting too long to tap the screen in either case results in vibration.

The point is to notice "vanishings," which is a core aspect of Shinzen's Youngs "Five Ways" training method. ReWire works with way #2: Focus Out. (For more on Shinzen's Five Ways, see this PDF .)

I downloaded the app last night, and I'm going to play around with it today, during my morning break.
Last edit: 13 years 2 months ago by Jackson. Reason: for clarity
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13 years 2 months ago #6894 by Ona Kiser
Replied by Ona Kiser on topic Re: ReWire app
Sounds clever. Given a lot of people probably spend a good amount of practice time daydreaming, worrying, etc., it's probably a very useful tool for learning to be very attentive quickly and efficiently.

I anticipate there will soon be a wave of people comparing their performance and stats? ;)
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13 years 2 months ago #6895 by Jackson
Replied by Jackson on topic Re: ReWire app
Just played for 10-minutes on "easy." I only chose two songs, so one of them repeated.

The only times I messed up were during song changes, since there's a break between songs that I misread as a function of the app. I noticed that the game interrupted the mind's tendency to lapse into discursive thought. This could provide a nice opening for recognizing the nature of Mind.

Unfortunately, the "Watch" setting didn't work on my phone. It wouldn't play the itunes video I chose. I may just need to reboot my phone. I'll let you all know if I get it working.

I'll have to try it on more difficult settings, and with longer tracks.
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13 years 2 months ago #6896 by Russell
Replied by Russell on topic Re: ReWire app
Jackson, I already emailed the dev about the song transition issue. They are working on it.

You need to try it on hard. It really gets your attention going. After a 20 minute session with i feel very much like I just had a good shamatha type sit. Relaxed, a little spacey.
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13 years 2 months ago #6897 by Jackson
Replied by Jackson on topic Re: ReWire app
Oh, I plan on ramping it up. I like taking my time, though, so as to get well acquainted with the whole app. That's how I approach things, most of the time. Thanks for your feedback.

I like that the app can help one cultivate a sense of relaxed focus that is also very clear and sharp. Both calm and vividness are needed for stable shamatha, and it looks like this app can work to increase these factors. Very cool.
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13 years 2 months ago #6900 by Chris Marti
Replied by Chris Marti on topic Re: ReWire app
I've downloaded this app but have not yet tried it.
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13 years 2 months ago - 13 years 2 months ago #6902 by Tom Otvos
Replied by Tom Otvos on topic Re: ReWire app
Here are my initial thoughts beyond the "it is cool" comment I lead with.

First, I have only used the audio mode...I can't really conceive of using the video mode and, more importantly, what video should I use? That same comment applies to audio, by the way...that it is not preloaded with some generic "tone" to get you going is odd. And I also wouldn't use just any old music because (a) it is too short, which means that you need to load multiple songs and since the app doesn't remember what you loaded so you need to reload, that is a pain, and (b) any old song could potentially make the vanishings very hard to notice outside of the music.

For me, I happen to have mp3s from "that brain wave inducing company" and they have some 30 minute recordings with more continuous sound that makes it less of a guess at the vanishings, although at the "hard" level it is still somewhat hard.

To Ona's comment about comparing stats, I agree. There is a competitiveness that seems to be engendered by the app which is not very "buddhist". Furthermore, have "easy", "medium", and "hard" levels seems unnecessary. Guys, show of hands...who did not try "hard" from the get go? I think the levels should be adaptive in the sense that the app should simply start at an arbitrary level and as you progress through the session it should figure out how hard to make it based on how well you are doing.

Just my 0.02, but on the whole I think it will be quite useful with the right audio.

Oh, and a tip...make sure you have enough battery power. If you drop below 20% and iOS throws up that alert saying you are running low, the app will not recognize the taps you make until you dismiss the dialog. If you have your eyes closed, you won't notice until you f up a bunch of times...the app will just buzz you down.

-- tomo
Last edit: 13 years 2 months ago by Tom Otvos.
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13 years 2 months ago #6905 by Jackson
Replied by Jackson on topic Re: ReWire app

Tom Otvos wrote: Guys, whos of hands... who did not try "hard" from the get go?


Um... *raises hand* (haha.) It's true, though. I started out on "easy" to get a feel for the process before diving deeper. That's my style, though. I think maybe its because I'm naturally quite low on the bravado scale. Not that those who start with the "hard" setting are a bunch of macho jerks. It's more that I'm just not very competative, most of the time. There have been exceptions!

I think your critique is well thought out, Tom. I would also like this app to be smarter in terms of difficulty settings. If the app was able to somewhat accurately keep the difficulty at one's current leading edge, it would be that much more effective at developing the skills it was designed to build and enhance. I'm not a programmer, so I have no idea how this would be done.
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13 years 2 months ago #6909 by Tom Otvos
Replied by Tom Otvos on topic Re: ReWire app
To the adaptation comment, it would be easy enough. They already have a notion of what is "easy" and what is "hard", which affects how often, and how short/long the vanishing are. And they are already tracking how well you are doing to enable them to give you a score. Just put the two together and it is a much more effective training tool.

-- tomo
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13 years 2 months ago #6918 by Tom Otvos
Replied by Tom Otvos on topic Re: ReWire app
Apropos to the more general topic of using apps to help improve some aspect of your practice, I just listened to a fascinating talk on Buddhist Geeks with Dr. Judson Brewer, using fMRI as feedback to practice. We've talked about some of this before, but the talk is really good and the guest is extremely eloquent and practical about the benefits, and limitations, of such an approach.

-- tomo
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13 years 2 months ago #6928 by Ona Kiser
Replied by Ona Kiser on topic Re: ReWire app
Given how difficult it is for most people to start meditating at all, I think pretty much any technique that helps a person focus for 5-10-30 minutes is probably a good start. I did a lot of the "count to ten" method I learned at a Zen center in the very beginning, and also used a number of random guided meditation podcasts, too. Otherwise I just tended to sit there thinking about random things.
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13 years 2 months ago #6933 by Ona Kiser
Replied by Ona Kiser on topic Re: ReWire app
A friend sent me this link to yet another online/appy meditation tool: www.getsomeheadspace.com/News/headspace-blog.aspx

Anyone familiar with it?

Needless to say, meditation apps seem to be becoming trendy!
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13 years 2 months ago #6934 by Russell
Replied by Russell on topic Re: ReWire app
Never heard of that one but there is also Buddhify on iPhone and Superbetter (not quite soley meditation based) from Jane McGonigal, I think she talked about it at last years Buddhist Geeks Conference.

I am waiting for an EEG based app where you can hook up electrodes and get real-time feedback.

Trying to decide how distracting these apps could become though.
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