Body Scanning

Do anyone here practices or has practiced body scanning as per Goenka?

I've been sitting at least 30 minutes daily of body scanning, plus at least 30 hours samatha, almost ever on the same sit (and beginning with samatha).

Basically, you 'scan' your body from head to feet, with an 'attention focus' a few centimeters wide. While you do it, you should observe equanimously aversion and clinging to arise and pass. Aversion and clinging are called sankharas, reactive patterns of mind, that lose their 'force' and tend to vanish when observed to arise and pass equanimously.

There's a few tips regarding specific situations - a few examples: when you meet areas without sensibility, you keep your attention of this spot for about a minute, or until you feel a sensation on this spot, keeping ever as equanimous as possible; similarly, when meeting gross, painful sensations, you hold the attention at the sensation for about a minute, or until the sensation dissolves/breaks into subtle vibrations (if this happens to be). When you feel only subtle sensations on certain parts or whole body, you 'sweep' (scan faster and more loosely) instead of patiently scanning.

If you feel only sublte sensations on the whole body and excelent sensibility, you start to scan also the inside of the body, and lastly the vertical spine. Then, when there's no gross sensation you can't see through both inside and on the surface, you're supposed to experience bangha, "dissolution". Now this can be a description (from my ignorant point of view) of either A&P or a fruition (any idea?).

Potential problems of this technique (and some speculation):

- there's no active inclusion of the subject-procces on observation; all you look into is your physical body. Altough every sensations has the characteristic of anatta, I can see also how the practice can lead you to cling onto an "observer" so you can look quietly at "the body". Peraphs this would be compensated later, when your entire body 'dissolves' and there's no way to flee from anatta insight?

- their advice is that when you're being overwhelmed by strong emotions (this applies also to thoughts) you're instructed do some samatha and then go back to scanning. I can see how this can hold you from getting entangled in thought/emotional content, but it also seems (by experience) to be an obstacle to keep the vipassana going on some limit situations; as there's no method to 'include' the emotion except 'fighting it' with sheer concentration and forcing your attention to look at it only part by part and only as you go scanning through the body. When I was panicking with fear and sadness and anguish I turned to noting a few times and it was 'easier' to sit this way, because if I just kept noting everything was a chance to 'profit'. It seems also (by experience) to be easier to 'handle' emotions when looking at them from the conjunct to it's parts (breaking it from the whole), instead of going part by part, but this may be just me, or even some trap I'm falling into. Thoughts?

A couple months back, feeling the need to deal with inner chatter somehow - it was rampant! - I began increasing my samatha sits, from 20 minutes to sometimes an entire hour, as my vipassana was getting too unfocused (looking at last 15 days sits it seems to be working, but it can also be a temporary naña effect of some kind). Recently I began also to note thoughts when they arise, and it seems to help the 'flow' of the sitting as noting a thought seems to remove part of it's 'fascination'. What do you people think?

Potential advantage of technique:

- when you look at a place with chronic muscular tension / rigidity usually you get a gross sensation or blank area (this correlation was further confirmed when I began - recently - to practice yoga asanas and have a clearer picture of my body's chronic tensions). As you observe body areas equanimously and with great clarity, emotions (and sometimes memories) arise; by being present with them, they discharge, and the tensioned/rigid area resumes it's flexibility and gets 'integrated' with the ego. I felt this many times, most intense being when a muscular tension ring at the solar plexus suddently was 'seen through' and I recovered flexibility of this region, allowing abdominal breath, more fluid movements (noticed when dancing), changing my center of equilibrium and reducing my anxiety problems by an whole 'layer' of anguish. This seems very terapeutic, in a Reichian sense.
So the question here is: this happens also with other kinds of vipassana or other practice modalities (like surrender)? If it happens, through what mechanism? If it's exclusive to body scanning, it may put this technique very closer to energy yoga, qi gong and the like. It reminds me there are many 'energy models' for awakening and I read once on DhO someone saying that many dark night symptons may be due to not dealing properly with the energy released at A&P, like energy getting stuck, etc . Still, at it's core, body scanning it's still vipassana, looking clearly at the 3 characteristics, maybe with bonus therapeutic emotional/tension release? Thoughts?

Metta,
Iago

Iago, I broke your post into smaller chucks below, so we can look at them from another perspective...

Iago wrote: - Now this can be a description (from my ignorant point of view) of either A&P or a fruition (any idea?).

- there's no active inclusion of the subject-procces on observation; all you look into is your physical body. Altough every sensations has the characteristic of anatta, I can see also how the practice can lead you to cling onto an "observer" so you can look quietly at "the body". Peraphs this would be compensated later, when your entire body 'dissolves' and there's no way to flee from anatta insight?

- (looking at last 15 days sits it seems to be working, but it can also be a temporary naña effect of some kind).

- (this correlation was further confirmed when I began - recently - to practice yoga asanas and have a clearer picture of my body's chronic tensions). As you observe body areas equanimously and with great clarity, emotions (and sometimes memories) arise; by being present with them, they discharge, and the tensioned/rigid area resumes it's flexibility and gets 'integrated' with the ego.[...]

- This seems very terapeutic, in a Reichian sense.[...]

- So the question here is: this happens also with other kinds of vipassana or other practice modalities (like surrender)? If it happens, through what mechanism?

- If it's exclusive to body scanning, it may put this technique very closer to energy yoga, qi gong and the like. It reminds me there are many 'energy models' for awakening and I read once on DhO someone saying that many dark night symptons may be due to not dealing properly with the energy released at A&P, like energy getting stuck, etc .

- Still, at it's core, body scanning it's still vipassana, looking clearly at the 3 characteristics

- maybe with bonus therapeutic emotional/tension release? Thoughts?

You mention many views (or theories, but not in the strict sense) in this post, and you use them to analyze the primary practice technique from Goenka's tradition. While this isn't inherently bad, it leaves me wondering just what the hell it is you're going for! Without a clear idea of your goal, I have no good way of evaluating whether the Goenka method is a good fit.

My guess is that you're answer to "where do you want to end up?" is "awakening" or "enlightenment" or something like that. This is a good thing, you know, so I'm not putting you down. While there are some shared experiences and realizations across various Buddhist or other spiritual traditions, the eclectic approach isn't always as pragmatic as it might seem at first glance. My personal opinion is that while eclecticism and perennialism are partially true, they don't really cut the mustard in terms of optimizing one's spiritual view, practice method(s), and result.

Thus, my current opinion is that while no tradition is objectively the Highest, Greatest, Most Perfect approach to life, the Universe, and Everything, it can be extremely helpful to maintain a particular view for long enough to practice in the direction it prescribes. Choosing a primary tradition, even loosely, can be a very good thing.

So, with that rant out of the way, what's your view? And also, what are you hoping the Goenka method will help you accomplish?

I should note that I'm not an expert at Goenka's view. I know about as much as you laid out here. But my guess is that his view and practice are very well aligned, which is why his approach is so appealing to so many people. Well, that - and his retreats are usually free

Thank you for your reply, Jackson!
Let's go:

My personal opinion is that while eclecticism and perennialism are partially true, they don't really cut the mustard in terms of optimizing one's spiritual view, practice method(s), and result.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. By eclecticism you mean trying to think together - and maybe mix - traditional maps, goals and practices? (if so, I think I'm pretty ecletic in my approach). By perennialism , you mean taking a practice and map as the only one that works, ever, for anyone? What cuts the mustard in your view?

So, with that rant out of the way, what's your view? And also, what are you hoping the Goenka method will help you accomplish?

Well, yeah, part of the answer is that I want to awaken. If I'm to define what I mean by this word, I would say deep insight into the reality of sensations in order to dispel ignorance. In my view this is also what's meant by 'finding your True Will", a Will that is not based on the petty views of the false self - a Will that emerges from being in sync with the immanent law of nature, "dhamma". So I can fullfil my potencies at their best, relate more naturally with death, aging, so I can be more compassionate, live peacefully even on the midst of eternal change, and share my peace with my environment, etc. This desire derives from a feeling (and reasoning) that any other choice would be inherently unsatisfactory, and this having been felt and reasoned, I can't ignore it anymore (I tried to ignore it last year, after a retreat, and I harvested only misery).

This is only part of the answer because I also lust for altered states (like jhanas, either vipassana or samatha ones), the mind strenght and calm that comes with concentration, and intellectual understanding of the deep mechanics of the universe. I know this lust can hold me back, but in my present view, the best way to dispel it is by being mindful and keep practicing. I have also a desire to 'do something for the world', and I feel the urge (and peraphs the talent) to teach self-healing and liberation; if it's to be so, the best self-healing and liberation I can teach is Dhamma or analogue, so to fulfill this urge I must first heal and liberate myself.

My view (so far!) is that any technique that combines concentrated attention with surrender into "the present" (i. e. what presents itself moment by moment) will eventually and gradually dispel illusion, layer by layer. "Concentrated attention" and "surrender" seems to me to be the same as, respectivelly, "consciousness" and "equanimity" - the terms Goenka uses to define the "two wings" of the vipassana bird - it only flies if both are functioning together. Being conscious of sensations and opening to them as they are.

Anyway, if I'm to 'choose' a tradition, it's Magick. Still, I have preliminar trainings I feel I should develop before engaging the 'core practice' of magick, surrendering to the Guardian Angel. These training are necessary so I can communicate properly with the angel, and receive it's guidance. They also apparently progress faster the better is your concentration and openess to the present, so Vipassana helps here. I need also confidence that I can sit everyday regardless of anything, and confidence I'm able to do self-retreat, so I'm putting myself to test.

In my present view, surrendering to an transcendent/inclusive entity and surrendering to the Truth of sensations (anicca, anatta and dukkha) are equivalent (in core), so while I'm still preparing the 'magickal' part of the operation, the 'mystical' one is already in progress while I sit vipassana. I've choosen body scanning because that's the technique I happened to learn. (Edit: I'm also really enjoying it's observed therapeutic benefits, and they can be useful to sail the rougher parts of the path skillfully) But my understanding of the map is based on Ingram's MCTB (which seems to match the magickal maps - like the qabalah - very elegantly), also because Goenka teaches very little about the territory you're supposed to go through (Edit: my reliance on Ingram's map bases on the assumption the map is similar and not solely an artifact of specific technique). My present plan is to keep vipassana going as usual and add daily surrendering to the Angel when I'm ready.

The reason I bring this discussion here is that I think there's no technique that matchs everyone perfectly, as they can cast blind spots (like solidifying the observer) and not take into account the singularity of personal (edit: and cultural) idiosyncrasies and tendencies, possibly hindering progress. So it's possible that I and others benefit from sharing experiences and views on this practice. Also, I benefit from listening to more advanced practitioners's opinions on my choices (many of them [choices] poorly thought or based on ignorance), as I have no trustable teacher that I can access or afford.

If you're not satisfied by my answers, feel free to keep inquiring. Thank you again!

Metta,
Iago

"Thus, my current opinion is that while no tradition is objectively the Highest, Greatest, Most Perfect approach to life, the Universe, and Everything, it can be extremely helpful to maintain a particular view for long enough to practice in the direction it prescribes." -Jackson

I agree that determined, disciplined consistency and buy-in/belief is a huge factor in any approach, view, or technique having an effect. Nothing makes for less progress than trying this for a bit, then switching to that for a bit, then trying something else. Mostly because we most often choose a new method when the current practice starts to feel boring or brings up uncomfortable sensations. Or we stop practicing regularly when we hit those hard parts and then come back to it again later, creating big gaps in our practice.

You do have to develop a level of buy-in to an approach to motivate yourself to keep it up even when the going gets tough, so if you think that such and such teacher's methods are probably crap, you won't have that strong intention to support your practice and keep you going. It makes sense to take a practice that is fairly proven to be useful. Based on the accounts of others, Goenka's method is quite effective.

Given you already are familiar with and have made some progress with Goenka's approach, Iago, it makes sense to me to buy into it, commit to it, and stick with it as your daily practice until such time as your practice has transformed notably and a re-evaluation of method might be helpful. Months, at least, would be typical.

Concentration, metta, or devotional practices can act as a soft supplement to give one further support. I think a lot of magicians forget that one can do a lot of magick just for the purpose of supporting the practice itself, as it is at the moment: rituals or prayers asking for more courage, less doubt, to be accepting in the face of fears and anxieties, to bring a sense of curiosity to the sensations that are being noted in the practice, or whatever is needed that day.

Iago wrote: I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. By eclecticism you mean trying to think together - and maybe mix - traditional maps, goals and practices? (if so, I think I'm pretty ecletic in my approach).

Yes. In my understanding, eclecticism is the "bag of tricks" approach. Eclecticism is often associated with having no clear view, while simultaneously trying to simply "do what works." This is ironic, however, because "what works" is always dependent on one's goal. If one's goal isn't clear, or if one's goals are changed to quickly, then otherwise attainable goals are wrongly determined to be unattainable due to one's not having allowed enough time and skillful effort to see it through to accomplishment.

A step up from eclecticism is Integrationism, which has much clearer goals and guiding concepts. Though, it is often used as a euphemism for eclecticism.

Iago wrote: By perennialism , you mean taking a practice and map as the only one that works, ever, for anyone? What cuts the mustard in your view?

No! That would be fundamtenalism. The perennial philosophy (philosophia perennis) is the idea of a common set of truths held by all peoples in all times and places. It light of the perennialist view, Buddhism is one of a number of paths to a metaphysical absolute which transcends any and all tradition-specific religions.

The problem with perennialism (if I should name only one) is that it often results in a "major in the majors, minor in the minors" approach. The (more often surface-level) similarities between traditions are seen as evidence in confirmation of the "deep" aspects of ultimate reality, while the differences are cast off as cultural idiosyncrasies, which can (and should) be taken less seriously.

What makes this view so problematic, in my opinion, is that it sees traditions as collections of truths claims, rather than as skillfully devised methods for bringing about a result. If we take the latter view, perennialism no longer fits the bill. Sometimes the idiosyncrasies matter A LOT, depending on what system of methods one is practicing. Even if there is one Ultimate Truth revealed by the practices of the great traditions, it's not going to be adequately reflected by a focus on matching statements. I think that would be missing the point entirely!

Does that makes sense?

Iago wrote: Well, yeah, part of the answer is that I want to awaken. If I'm to define what I mean by this word, I would say deep insight into the reality of sensations in order to dispel ignorance.

If you mean physical sensations, than I think Goenka's method is probably a good fit for you.

Iago wrote: In my view this is also what's meant by 'finding your True Will", a Will that is not based on the petty views of the false self - a Will that emerges from being in sync with the immanent law of nature, "dhamma". So I can fullfil my potencies at their best, relate more naturally with death, aging, so I can be more compassionate, live peacefully even on the midst of eternal change, and share my peace with my environment, etc. This desire derives from a feeling (and reasoning) that any other choice would be inherently unsatisfactory, and this having been felt and reasoned, I can't ignore it anymore (I tried to ignore it last year, after a retreat, and I harvested only misery).

I can't say I fully understand the connection between dispelling ignorance with regard to sensations and finding your True Will, but that doesn't mean you're wrong. It means I'm ignorant of the Western Magickal tradition

Iago wrote: This is only part of the answer because I also lust for altered states (like jhanas, either vipassana or samatha ones), the mind strenght and calm that comes with concentration, and intellectual understanding of the deep mechanics of the universe. I know this lust can hold me back"

How might it hold you back?

Iago wrote: ... but in my present view, the best way to dispel it is by being mindful and keep practicing.

That sounds sensible enough, but I'm not sure I'm convinced. I think we can follow paths of renunciation (eradicating desire), but there are also paths which employ the use of desire in order to transform it. I'm afraid using desire as a means removing it won't work. This is one of those areas where one has to get clear about just what kind of path they want to follow.

Iago wrote: My view (so far!) is that any technique that combines concentrated attention with surrender into "the present" (i. e. what presents itself moment by moment) will eventually and gradually dispel illusion, layer by layer. "Concentrated attention" and "surrender" seems to me to be the same as, respectivelly, "consciousness" and "equanimity" - the terms Goenka uses to define the "two wings" of the vipassana bird - it only flies if both are functioning together. Being conscious of sensations and opening to them as they are.

That sounds pretty good, Iago. I recommend reflecting on your ideas about what you expect to realize after illusion is dispelled. If you don't, you could end up having some really neat experiences, and unconsciously use them as evidence for views you've been carrying around with you. There's an unfortunate meme going around in the pragmatic dharma scene that seems to suggest if one simply does the practice, they will realize the non-conceptual Truth. But I think we all carry around a lot of conceptual baggage, and this can be just as much of a problem as not meditating. That is, sometimes what people think is non-conceptual wisdom is actually unconscious conceptual baggage. Not everyone agrees, however, so everyone needs to look into this for themselves.

Iago wrote: If you're not satisfied by my answers, feel free to keep inquiring.

Your answers were great, Iago. Thank you for taking the time to share them with us.

I think body scanning might be a good fit for you at this time. Body-oriented practices can be very effective for getting us cerebral-obsessed Westerners out of our thoughts and into our bodies. However, I would recommend one variation on the technique. Compared with other practices, the practice of sweeping from top to bottom is rather restrictive of attention. Learning to expand attention to simultaneously include the phenomena of one's entire body, feelings, and mind/thoughts is a good skill to have. I don't know much about the practice of surrendering to your HGA, but I imagine it requires a lot of openness. That's why I think it would be good to do this.

So, if you get some good momentum going with the sweeping technique, maybe you could try opening up to all of it. You could even notice the way the sensations of your entire body change with you in and out breath, all at the same time. Consciousness need not be restricted to small areas to be effective. Maybe this is already taught in the Goenka method, and I'm just telling you something you already know.

Feel free to tell me if you think any of that is helpful. I'd like to know either way, so I don't go on offering crappy advice to others

Ona wrote:

Given you already are familiar with and have made some progress with Goenka's approach, Iago, it makes sense to me to buy into it, commit to it, and stick with it as your daily practice until such time as your practice has transformed notably and a re-evaluation of method might be helpful. Months, at least, would be typical.

Thanks for the advice, Ona. Indeed I'm already 4 months with body scanning (including 10-day retreat) and present plan is to keep with it even if I add a surrender practice afterwards.

Concentration, metta, or devotional practices can act as a soft supplement to give one further support. I think a lot of magicians forget that one can do a lot of magick just for the purpose of supporting the practice itself, as it is at the moment: rituals or prayers asking for more courage, less doubt, to be accepting in the face of fears and anxieties, to bring a sense of curiosity to the sensations that are being noted in the practice, or whatever is needed that day.

Yeah! All of this is recent discovery for me, and I can't agree more. I'm slacking a bit with my previous devotional practices. I sat daily (small sits, ~10 to ~30 minutes) surrendering to deities from january to april, before re-engaging vipassana. I still do it occasionally, but main focus moved to vipassana. I feel the open focus of devotion is easier to keep with it, but this may be due to a long term disbalance in my personality that's better to fix.
Hmm: this reminds me of something related. Crowley says there's a risk with invocation of deities, as contact with their 'energies' tends to exacerbate some aspects of our personalities (nothing mysterious, it's probably similar to cultivating compassion with metta practice). If we choose the deities that are closer to those aspects of ourselves that are already developed, we can get dangerously unbalanced. So he recommends working with deities that are linked with our undeveloped aspects.
I did both at the same time; my already brainy tendencies (apparently) got exacerbated by invocation of Hermes, and I got notably intellectually articulated but emotionally cold. On the meantime, I was working with Athena, asking for patience and perseverance, and it was of a lot of help! This was a key to break some knots or limitations I had. I needed discipline, so I could cultivate my strenght, but I didn't had the strenght to discipline myself. Working with deities was a way to "relax" the knot, stopping spending energy to punsih and yell at myself, and when - during the day - opportunities arised so I could cultivate intended virtues, I would remember the deity and aknowledge the opportunity as a gift.
Last week I added metta practice after sitting, five (humble) minutes. So far, it's being amazingly (and unexpectedly) rewarding!

Ona, I'm eager to hear more details about your deity work to develop virtues and fight unskillfull tendencies! If it gets too much into magick mojo, we can talk over about it on the other forum you mentioned recently, Salome's Revenge.

Jackson wrote:

Does that makes sense?

Yes, it makes, and by what you said it seems a very good classification system. But I don't know where my present view fit in. For a while I was comfortable with the "pragmatic dharma" usual approach (dismissing superficial differences in light of an always present insight cicle with similar endpoints), but the Actual Freedom earthquake and subsequent tremors put everything in doubt. Now, reading further on Western Magick (Crowley specially), I'm even more uncertain there's a sole landing ground for 'enlightenment', altough the similarities of many traditions are not to be dismissed. So yeah, I can see your point about being clear with what I want. I confess I'm more unsure of that than ever ("EVER" meaning since contact with MCTB 3 years ago ). BUT vipassana (and previous deity work) is making my life a lot LOT better - by increasing openess and concentration - and if (despite dark nights expected on the weather forecast) the general direction is to deepen this intimity and concentration, I'm dead sure I want to keep going.

If you mean physical sensations, than I think Goenka's method is probably a good fit for you.

I meant any sensation, as by Ingram's model the same Truth is present and observable in any sensation. My assumption is that by gaining insight on 3Cs you get insight on 3Cs, regardless if you're looking at your thumb or a thought. This is not Goenka's take anyway (body sensations are special to him because they're "the unconscious", and he constantly points to not using any visualization and/or words on both samatha and vipassana because thoughts and imagination are not 'really real'. To me this seems to diverge from Ingram's take).
What do you think on this regard?

I can't say I fully understand the connection between dispelling ignorance with regard to sensations and finding your True Will

As I have not yet the clear experience of my "True Will", I can't say for sure, it's all theoretical. It's also some kind of Crowley-Buddha hybrid; by realizing anicca, anatta and dukkha you stop clinging and averting (buddhist "lust", the 'false will' of the ego, based on ignorance) and then you can Will without lust. Will without lust is what Crowley (expressely) calls True Will, and it's called True because it's informed by so-called direct experience of Truth, which is elegantly explained by the theravadin as the 3Cs.

How might it hold you back?

By temporarially (like some time during a sit) or totally stopping investigation and leading to clinging to jhanas, ideas and ideation and transient conditions of mind (mind strenght).

I think we can follow paths of renunciation (eradicating desire), but there are also paths which employ the use of desire in order to transform it. I'm afraid using desire as a means removing it won't work. This is one of those areas where one has to get clear about just what kind of path they want to follow.

I'm not sure about this! I'm not inclined to monasticism (nor was Crowley), although I can imagine renunciation being very very skillfull, even if just temporary (like on retreat) - maybe temporary or intermitent renunciation has even one advantages over total renunciation, as it can be exercise of flexibility, discovering the further extent of your potencies. I have to renunciate many things (potencies) I could do with a daily hour (and potentially more on the future) to be able to keep sitting! (well, ok, this is life, no big deal) But there's also the desire of sitting, of liberation, etc, and even the desire for jhanas and the like - they compel me to sit more, and they seem necessary so far. So I think presently I'm trying not to get neurotic (and theoretical) about "desire" - trusting that insight will pave my way to better comprehension gradually, trying to avoid ill-will as skillfully as I can, but at the same time trying not to repress anger, sexual passion, the bodily impulse... I probably have a lot of contradictions here, but I'm trusting the practice will naturally lead me to my "True Will" without the need of a moral code... if I only keep practicing and increase general mindfullness and avoid ill-will as best as I can. Is this too naive?

So, if you get some good momentum going with the sweeping technique, maybe you could try opening up to all of it. You could even notice the way the sensations of your entire body change with you in and out breath, all at the same time. Consciousness need not be restricted to small areas to be effective. Maybe this is already taught in the Goenka method, and I'm just telling you something you already know.

Cool! Surrendering to HGA will probably follow on this line. I think this conversation, and your advices, are helping me to think things more deeply, and also challenging a few assumptions of mine. This is good! Thank you!

Metta,
Iago

"Ona, I'm eager to hear more details about your deity work to develop virtues and fight unskillfull tendencies! If it gets too much into magick mojo, we can talk over about it on the other forum you mentioned recently, Salome's Revenge."-Iago

I think the way deity work can be skillful and a support to awakening and to your vipassana is if you identify things you are having trouble with and ask for help. You seem to have the right idea with Hermes, Athena, etc. The way I've done it, each deity, saint, etc. has certain qualities - some are warriors, some are gentle and maternal, some are intellectual, some all about deep compassion, or love, or courage, etc. So if you can be honest with yourself, and identify what you are struggling with right now (say, in a particular week), then you can choose a deity that can support you. So if you tend to be angry at yourself or others, don't choose a warrior deity! Choose one that has gentle, maternal or comforting qualities (Lakshmi, the Virgin Mary, etc.). Or if you are feeling full of doubt and fear, as if you have no courage, then choose a deity that represents courage (the Archangel Michael would be great for that, for example, or Saint Barbara). If you feel like you are stuck and the way is blocked, talk to Ganesha or St. Peter. That's the method. There are many pantheons - I think they all do a good job. I've given examples that I happen to be familiar with.

And I always think it's very useful to do the devotional practices following the traditional formula (whatever mantra or invocation is usually used), but to also include a period of free conversation where you simply tell them what you are struggling with and ask for support.

You can also do this kind of practice without deities. If you identify your difficulties honestly, you can simply state your intentions in a ritual way each morning, or before each meditation. Such as "I know I am being angry with myself in a way that is harmful. Let me find kindness towards myself and be reminded throughout the day to keep coming back to kindness first. Let me be patient with myself as I learn this new skill." or whatever. Spoken intention is a powerful thing.

I think there are some threads on this on SR. Or feel free to start your own. You might get input from some other spirity types there, too.

Iago wrote: Yes, it makes, and by what you said it seems a very good classification system.

Glad to hear it.

Iago wrote: For a while I was comfortable with the "pragmatic dharma" usual approach (dismissing superficial differences in light of an always present insight cicle with similar endpoints), but the Actual Freedom earthquake and subsequent tremors put everything in doubt.

Well said!

Iago wrote: Now, reading further on Western Magick (Crowley specially), I'm even more uncertain there's a sole landing ground for 'enlightenment', altough the similarities of many traditions are not to be dismissed.

For me, the common aspect of all awakening (from a Buddhist perspective, at least) is emptiness. It is from emptiness - because of emptiness - that there is no one formal (read: form-al) expression of realization. It's perfectly fine to have a preference for one path and expression of result over another, so long as we realize such preferences are subjective. By recognizing the role of subjectivity, we can have our opinions and preferences and hold them lightly. It's taking me a while to learn this! And the benefist are manifold.

Iago wrote: I meant any sensation, as by Ingram's model the same Truth is present and observable in any sensation.

I think I understand. I find the word "sensation" as a general term referring to experience to be problematic, because it covertly reduces experience to the gross physical body. I prefer "phenomenal appearance" or just "appearance."

Iago wrote: My assumption is that by gaining insight on 3Cs you get insight on 3Cs, regardless if you're looking at your thumb or a thought. This is not Goenka's take anyway (body sensations are special to him because they're "the unconscious", and he constantly points to not using any visualization and/or words on both samatha and vipassana because thoughts and imagination are not 'really real'. To me this seems to diverge from Ingram's take).
What do you think on this regard?

I don't think body sensations are inherently special over other phenomena. Focusing on body sensations can be very helpful, though, depending on what one is working toward. I also think that considering body sensations as "really real" over any other phenomena is reductionism, which I do not support. In terms of vipassana methods, I prefer Mahasi Sayadaw's approach because it is more inclusive. But there are many potential pitfalls with the Mahasi method as well, as is the case for all practice methods.

Iago wrote: As I have not yet the clear experience of my "True Will", I can't say for sure, it's all theoretical. It's also some kind of Crowley-Buddha hybrid; by realizing anicca, anatta and dukkha you stop clinging and averting (buddhist "lust", the 'false will' of the ego, based on ignorance) and then you can Will without lust. Will without lust is what Crowley (expressely) calls True Will, and it's called True because it's informed by so-called direct experience of Truth, which is elegantly explained by the theravadin as the 3Cs.

How might it hold you back?

By temporarially (like some time during a sit) or totally stopping investigation and leading to clinging to jhanas, ideas and ideation and transient conditions of mind (mind strenght).

What I hear you saying is that lust is a problem because it leads to clinging, and clinging jams up one's practice. Is that right?

Iago wrote: I'm not sure about this! I'm not inclined to monasticism (nor was Crowley), although I can imagine renunciation being very very skillfull, even if just temporary (like on retreat) - maybe temporary or intermitent renunciation has even one advantages over total renunciation, as it can be exercise of flexibility, discovering the further extent of your potencies. I have to renunciate many things (potencies) I could do with a daily hour (and potentially more on the future) to be able to keep sitting! (well, ok, this is life, no big deal)

Uh huh...

Iago wrote: But there's also the desire of sitting, of liberation, etc, and even the desire for jhanas and the like - they compel me to sit more, and they seem necessary so far. So I think presently I'm trying not to get neurotic (and theoretical) about "desire" - trusting that insight will pave my way to better comprehension gradually, trying to avoid ill-will as skillfully as I can, but at the same time trying not to repress anger, sexual passion, the bodily impulse...

This is good, Iago. From what I understand about Vajrayana (which is not much), the root of desire or lust is appreciation. You can desire something you don't appreciate. They key to keeping desire from becoming neurotic is something you already implied: good-will, or rather, kindness. The funny thing is that kindness also requires appreciation! If you're not harming others or yourself, there's no reason not have have desire for practice. Appreciate the hell out of jhanas if you are so inclined! But don't forget to appreciate everything else as well. I doesn't have to be an either/or situation.

Iago wrote: I probably have a lot of contradictions here, but I'm trusting the practice will naturally lead me to my "True Will" without the need of a moral code... if I only keep practicing and increase general mindfullness and avoid ill-will as best as I can. Is this too naive?

I don't know if it's naive. My practice doesn't involve the unearthing of True Will, so I can't offer much perspective in that regard.

Iago wrote: Cool! Surrendering to HGA will probably follow on this line. I think this conversation, and your advices, are helping me to think things more deeply, and also challenging a few assumptions of mine. This is good! Thank you!

I'm enjoying this conversation as well, Iago.

I am not a huge Crowley fan, but my take on what is intended by True Will is that when one has reliquished sufficient clinging and aversion (lust or desire for certain outcomes/experiences) one falls into alignment with the natural flow of reality as it already is, which could also be called Divine Will, or (I think) True Will. When True Will is recognized it allows your destiny, as it were, to unfold exactly as it is intended to, without you getting in your own way. Or said another way, "do what thou Wilt" is about *recognizing* that reality, just as it is, already always was True Will, you just didn't see it before, and so you struggled and suffered because you kept trying to make things happen to suit your own purposes, which were based on ego-driven desires and what you thought was probably the right thing or what you needed. Personally I think "Thy Will be done" (from the Pai Nosso) means the same thing.

Morally speaking, the more we see the game our minds play with desire, clinging, aversion, the more we are able to recognize when we are trying to do things for the wrong reasons, making excuses for actions that might harm others, etc. And through this recognition we also find more patience, compassion and love for all beings.

I think it is not healthy to be self-punitive about our foibles and weaknesses - being ascetic about things as a form of self-punishment is just as unhealthy as being self-indulgent. Instead, trying to see how the impulses arise seems to allow their grip on us to loosen, so we can begin to make better decisions about living in a kind, friendly, compassionate and healthy way. If, for example, we always drink too much or get in arguments with a friend, can we find the underlying emotions that are leading to that? At the very root of most "bad behavior" is fear. Fear of abandonment, fear of losing control, fear of the unknown, fear of dying, etc. Gently looking into these patterns with an open heart brings wisdom.