Ken McLeod on breathing

I think this is describing king of samadhi practice.  Taking a view of the sensory field as a whole & then abiding with the breath as a point within it.

Actually, I strongly disagree, the experience of breathing in this exercise isn't "a point" in this description/method.

If you read closer, the instructions are to experience the actual experience of breathing and the open field of attention. When the mind narrows onto an object, that object is included in the experience of breathing and within the open field of attention, but it does not become a focus or point.

This practice has a way of destroying the refuge we take in the narrow focus of attention by emphasizing all the experiences of the breathing body and holding the open field of attention. 

I just described it poorly.  But the words you used -

to experience the actual experience of breathing and the open field of attention. 

I would say are king of samadhi.

ah, okay. sorry to jump in so forcefully   

out of curiosity and just for fun, what would you call the king of vipassina?

No worries.  Haha i don’t know if that exists.  I think king of samadhi technique is part of the mahamudra commentarial tradition from the sutra of the same name.  

I think the pinnacle of vipassana in the traditional sense might be the direct perception of emptiness, which is 1st bhumi/stream entry.  Or maybe much later into the bhumis.  Although I don’t know if vipassana would be the word to describe later levels.

This reminds me of my 2010-2012 Shamatha Calm-abiding practice , which was based on the awareness of the whole body breathing and calming/relaxing any noticed stiff parts. Its a very zoomed out approach but there is seeing that attention does wonder off into a zoomed in state on its own, it goes here then there ... zooms out again, etc ... Very good practice! 

Shargrol wrote: Actually, I strongly disagree, the experience of breathing in this exercise isn't "a point" in this description/method.

If you read closer, the instructions are to experience the actual experience of breathing and the open field of attention. When the mind narrows onto an object, that object is included in the experience of breathing and within the open field of attention, but it does not become a focus or point.

This practice has a way of destroying the refuge we take in the narrow focus of attention by emphasizing all the experiences of the breathing body and holding the open field of attention. 

Hi Shargrol, hope you doing well! 
You know my jurney a bit, and I wondered just now if you would suggest this practice for me at this stage? As a sitting practice that is. This totally looks like my old Shamatha Calm-abiding practice. Or would this just be falling back into a "familiar ground"?

Thank you!

I don't know what the right answer is, but here's a thought...

While out on one of your walks, sit down and try this samadhi practice:
close eyes, listen to sounds, experience the field of hearing
open eyes, include sight, experience the field of seeing 
notice breathing body, include breathing sensations, experience the field of sensations
notice thoughts/emotions about the practice
accept all bandwidths as "one field" of experience, the field of experiencing, the field of being alive
rest in the experience

this is high-energy samadhi, so only do for 10 or 15 minutes total

you'll fall in and out of the "one field" experience -- totally normal. Only go through 5 to 10 cycles of falling in and out.

with this practice, better to do a few good cycles of working up to and resting in "one field". If it isn't happening, better to STOP than to train sloppily. Don't train sloppiness. And some days, you might not get any traction at all, so don't try and force it when it isn't happening.


Play around with this idea as an experiment! Hope this helps in some way.

Ok, will try this out. Thanks S! Right now seem to be experiencing strong misery and insect-like crawling on skin . Also, resistance to practice, would rather have a cup of tea than go and sit through this. This might be the worst or the finest stage for this kind of a practice  

In many ways, the worst sits are the best sits.

Ha! may it be for the benefit of all!