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Enlightenment: What It Is And How To Get It

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11 years 4 months ago #19768 by goran
What do you think of this essay I wrote?

Enlightenment: What It Is And How To Get It

Thanks.
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11 years 4 months ago #19770 by Laurel Carrington
Very interesting--I did some reading on your website and was intrigued to find that Kant's philosophy was part of your journey. I have been thinking about his Critique of Pure Reason lately and thinking that western philosophers took centuries to arrive at what eastern thinkers understood many years ago. Hume's work inspired Kant in the first place. Always found Hume fascinating, before I got to eastern sources. Now I think westerners slogged around in duality, trying to describe the phenomenal world at the same time they were unable to take that final step.

Speaking of steps, have you read Heidegger? Famous Nazi, I'm afraid. But the later Heidegger may have been awake, describing pure awareness with his "Schritt zuruck" (step back). I read and studied Being and Time as an undergraduate, back in 1975, and was mortified to learn much later of his connections to Nazism. He never explained himself later, and now post-modernists have to try to square what they admire about the thought with what they abhor about the man. But back to the Schritt zuruck: it all seemed so profound when I first encountered it, and yet it's just dancing around the awakened state.

A big part of my "problem" now as an academic is a loss of interest in The Life of the Mind.

But to continue: I've read Jed McKenna's stuff and have a love/hate relationship with it, but I keep coming back to it. The one substantive thing that I would like to say is that I can't quite get my mind around the notion of awakening without meditation. I find myself wanting to do it for hours, going on retreat, working it into daily life. I enjoy it. Daniel Ingram disparages the sudden awakening approach, or at least shows real skepticism about it.

Can't think of a concluding remark so I'll just say thanks for sharing.
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11 years 4 months ago #19772 by Chris Marti
From this page on that website:

www.uncoveringlife.com/awakening-story/

I had found an online community of people that shared my aspirations, and there were some enlightened people there too. At least they said they were.

“You become enlightened by practicing meditation,” I was told.

They gave me some pretty simple instructions; and if I just followed them, my enlightenment would be assured. But although the instructions were simple, executing them was not. I don’t know if you’ve tried it, but sitting in meditation is plain boring. You were supposed to “investigate phenomena” which is about as boring as it gets. And when one of the enlightened guys finally said that I would have to sit for years before I could expect any significant progress, I knew that I would never pull this meditation thing off. I couldn’t sit for five minutes, let alone five years.

So I went off looking for something different. I immediately found others who promised that enlightenment could be attained in no time at all. I really liked that.

Instant enlightenment.

They taught something called Advaita Vedanta, and their core message was basically that everybody is already enlightened – we just have to recognize it – and that, they told me, only takes an instant (although I later learned that sometimes you have to wait a very long time for that instant to come.)


I guess I took the long way :P
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11 years 4 months ago #19775 by Ona Kiser
Wandering off on a ponder, not directly related to the initial post...

In conversation with a friend just the other day we mused about the "problem" of vocabulary - awakening, enlightenment - and how differently people can use these terms. There's no "standard" - unless perhaps you work within a specific tradition. Pragmatic dharma in particular, and other modern spinoffs that draw on a variety of traditions for influence - tend to be such that each person uses the terms they prefer in the way they prefer. I recall arguments somewhere that we shouldn't use the term "enlightenment" because it had too much baggage. I have tended to use the term awakening rather loosely myself in the past, just because that's what I was exposed to.

The second thing is that it seems there are two basic approaches to awakening. One being perhaps:

The one view is that awakening happens (even if it's a "little awakening" or "glimpse") - and that is considered Awake (or Enlightened, depending on the person's vocabulary), but then there's a process of maturation and integration over the life that follows. The other being that little glimpses and big glimpses happen along the way, and only when the last of the hindrances or reactivity falls away would one consider that one is Enlightened. Which is sort of the same thing, except seen from opposite ends, so to speak.

My take on this somewhat confusing messiness is that it is just part of the way things are. The strategies for trying to control the messiness - secretive initiatory systems, inquisitions, social exclusion of those who don't follow the party line, and so on - are not very effective, besides causing a lot of harm. Awakening seems (if you think of it as a life form!) to have a desire to share itself, and this tends to burst forth with enthusiasm any time someone has a big insight. Guilty. :) Which is why at some point or another most everyone either goes running to tell their colleagues, writes a book, starts a blog, etc. It's a beautiful human adventure, messiness and all.
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11 years 4 months ago #19783 by Femtosecond
Can you tell us more about what it was like for you when you had this realization?
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11 years 4 months ago #19786 by Shargrol

goran wrote: What do you think of this essay I wrote?

Enlightenment: What It Is And How To Get It

Thanks.


I'm not enlightened, so it's a little ridiculous for me to comment... but my instinct is that going in the direction of subjectivity of experience as a teaching method is a good one. My best guess is that taking a strong stance about the actual nature of reality being subjectivity, or that objectivity/materialism is wrong, may be too definitive. As you show in your essay, the domains of both objectivity and subjectivity are limited. Materialism falls apart under scrutiny, as does self-other orientation to experience. But the important thing is they aren't quite wrong, so much as they are are both tautological. They work within a particular orientation and fall apart when trying to be applied outside of that domain. And as you point out, even "subjectivity" falls apart when considering the nature of experience as experience. Or what "experiencing" IS.

I will say that most of the teachers I resonate with seem to be pointing towards an awakening that isn't "against" different mind states or orientations, but rather "contains" all of them... or maybe it's better to say: awakening "permeates" all mind states. In this sense, objectivity or subjectivity or even duality isn't a problem. The nature of all of those are seen as they are. This is the classic conclusion: "form is emptiness, emptiness is form". Any of the tautological mind orientations are still mind/experience, so not quite "right" but not quite "wrong" either.

That's my attempt at a fast-written reaction. Hope this helps.
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11 years 4 months ago #19796 by Tom Otvos
I was going to hold off mentioning this, but since the topic has now been broached, I hope (Goran) that you plan to participate in this community and not merely link to your personal website to sell your book. It sounds like you have a lot of useful experiences to share, from which many here would benefit, but our Forum Rules do not allow the former behaviour:

These forums are for discussion purposes and meant as a way to exchange ideas and communicate among people with similar interests. You may not use the forums to post or transmit advertisements or commercial solicitations of any kind.


-- tomo
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11 years 4 months ago #19798 by Laurel Carrington
I read the discussion on DhO, and really liked what Florian had to say. It helps put things in perspective. Just thought I'd mention it.
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