What is the point of life-and-death?

Do you feel that this question can be resolved through practice? If so, do you think it is resolved in a similar way for every person? How is it resolved?

I ask because recently I have been troubled by nihilism, that is, the sense that there is no point to living, so why bother? This comes from the sense that any meaning I derive from living dies with me, that is, only if meaning is ultimately assigned by the human mind. I guess I look for a more universal meaning that encompasses everyone and everything and that is not so homocentric. But "proof" of that feels scant, if non-existent.

This is what I wrote about it a few months ago when a friend asked a similar question:

http://alittledeathblog.com/2011/12/18/pointlessness/

Jake2, this is a very interesting question.

I find that the fluidity of meaning usually leads to despair only if it freezes around the idea of meaninglessness. Said another way, "meaningless" is yet another meaning one ascribes to experience; NOT the logical conclusion of the reality of fluid meaning.

Meaninglessness isn't ultimately true. It is yet another story superimposed on THIS.

Said yet another way, the fact that meaning is not absolute does not necessarily mean that meaninglessness is absolute. There's a duality implicit in this logic; that is, until it is cracked through wisdom.

This is a terrific example of how rational deduction is not a sufficient vehicle for awakening.

Nice answer, too, Jackson.

Thanks to both of you. That is helpful.

This is a great question-- maybe THE Great Question, a gateway to emptiness.

IF-- and it's a big 'if'-- you don't solidify the emptiness into 'the answer' and an excuse to dispense with your precious human life and practice. As Jackson pointed out so well, above. I think you really start practicing as an adult human being when you become interested enough in the questions to not grab desperately at the quickest answer that pops into your head. It's an amazingly short distance from 'What IS the meaning of life-and-death-- if it's not what I thought, what I was told? I really don't know anymore; I really wonder.' to 'Things really aren't as cut-and-dried as I thought; things are really more interesting-- and AMAZING!-- than I thought.'

Emptiness is not 'nothing', not despair [which is 'something,' anyway]. Emptiness is the openness from which ANYTHING can appear.

Kate,

_/|\_

(I'm loving the text gassho lately... perhaps I'll call it a gasshocon)

Seriously, though. Great post.

Kate,
_/|\_
(I'm loving the text gassho lately... perhaps I'll call it a gasshocon)
Seriously, though. Great post.


-awouldbehipster

and great coinage: gasshocon backatcha!

Emptiness is not 'nothing', not despair [which is 'something,' anyway]. Emptiness is the openness from which ANYTHING can appear.


-kategowen

Really important to emphasize, Kate. Nicely said.

English words seldom used in western dharma circles but that should be (thanks to Jackson and Kate for this one):
- adult
- patience


-cmarti

I'd add (a bit tongue in cheek):

-responsibility
-love

Trust me, not assumed by many people!

Sunyata, would you be satisfied by a non-conceptual answer? Or, is there a subtle need for conceptual understanding?

One of my favorite quotes: Isn't it strange that we prefer the quicksand of somethingness to the firm ground of emptiness.

To me, beliefs can prevent us from entering into the mystery of life. Beliefs are static and dead; life is, well, alive and flowing.

jack

What would be a non-conceptual answer to you? Is there something that has already been related that you consider non-conceptual?

I am satisfied by the Truth. I suspect that transcends concepts.

I would like to formulate a conceptual understanding based on my accumulated experience as well as the experience of others.

I think you are right: beliefs can inhibit our engagement with the here and now. I don't think they have to though, as long as they are brought to conscious awareness.

Hmm, I don't think it comes from anywhere nor is it divined it anyway. It entails a direct apprehension of reality. Truth is realized through experience not comprehension.

You know, this question "What is the point of life and death?" - has anyone ever at any time in their life imagined how exactly this might be answered? *Setting aside* any perspectives relating to awakening, think back to high school, college, whenever you might first have had this question. If an voice came in a dream and told you the answer, what on earth would it ideally have been? What did/do you want to hear?

Is there really an answer like: "The point is for you to go to grad school, marry that red-headed girl, move to Denver, wear blue jeans, and prefer country music, have four children, and then die of cancer at the age of 72." That would be practical at least. Would that kind of answer satisfy? (And again, just talking from regular human perspective, not dharma-teaching perspective.)

When I have had that question more or less, it seems like a way
of saying "I feel like crap and maybe if I changed something in my life I
would feel better, but I don't know what decisions to make and I wish
someone would tell me what to do."

Thoughts?

Ona, I have definitely wanted someone to tell me what to do before because I was confused. I still feel this sometimes too. I feel as though I am here for a purpose and look for a sign as to what that may be. I also feel that the more I sit, the more I attune myself to what my purpose is. I don't know if I will ever have such a breakthrough realization or not. In the meantime, I guess the best I can do is use my own judgement and what I know about myself in proceeding forward.

Also, my understanding of the point of life-and-death I think is a little more general and less prescribed. I feel as though I am here to learn particular lessons--one of which I think is to learn to be more emotionally grounded--and it is up to me to engage that lesson. I also feel that my "soul" has a long history during which I cultivated particular skills and a temperament that make me more inclined to pursue particular vocations or interests. Not that I can't pursue interests I have never had before, but I have already developed certain skills that appear as talents and inclinations in this lifetime that make the going easier and more natural in those fields. There is a greater probability that I will pass through a certain series of events in this lifetime, however there are also possible offshoots I could traverse that are a result of decisions I may make at key moments in my life. So, in my current view, this life is a mix of destiny and free will, however I have come across some work recently (re: Gary Weber via Ramana Maharshi and Sam Harris) that contends free will is an illusion and life is completely predestined. I do not have fully formed opinion on this yet.

My "final answer" to my question would be that the point is to reunite with the Source. The lessons we learn in these physical lives bring us closer to that.

At least that's the little philosophy to which I subscribe. I do find that it supports me in giving me a purpose to practice.

Chris, Yikes! I have not had that free fall feeling. I see what you are saying though. ANY conception of the Truth misses the mark, is fodder for attachment, and ultimately is a hindrance to progress.

Exactly. That is what I was trying to say.

jack

Jack, why do your posts always come out like you are quoting yourself, in the little box? What secrets of formatting do you have that we do not?

Jake 2-- In concert with Ona, let me suggest some 'interesting' questions.

What if 'purpose' is a kind of conceptual 'transitional object' [like a child's special blankie]-- what if it is a shifting, subjective feeling of being on the right track or engaged in worthwhile activity; and has no 'objective correlative?'

What if it is something that is apparent in retrospect, and if going forward all you have is your best guess, your preference, your knowledge of what you will actually DO [as opposed to 'the right answer' according to texts or an expert], and the informed and sympathetic advice of qualified friends with at least some further experience than yourself-- and who actually KNOW you, over some time--?

What if philosophy and expectations and bowcoups of information are what's in your way? And what is required is-- if not being 'comfortable with uncertainty' as Pema puts it, having at least a little spark of daring, of 'what the hell?' Being DONE with samsara, with its successes and pleasures as well as its failures and pains?

What if Chris is right and what happens feels like 'free fall' to you, as it has to so many of the rest of us? [And that's the GOOD news: success at last!]

In the end, there's just one question-- are you game to go with no guarantees about where you'll fetch up, beyond it's being NOT what you expected, and NOT seeming like a brilliantly executed swan dive?

Shoot, for that matter, what if the questioning is pretty much the same as it was when you were little and it was a way to keep the adult in the room so you didn't have to fall asleep alone in the dark?

-- a ponder; I hope not TOO 'interesting.'