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Was it worth it?
2 years 1 week ago - 2 years 1 week ago #120818
by RJK
Was it worth it? was created by RJK
Hello! As I've observed that this community consists mostly of individuals who have completed their practice journeys, rather than people who are still pursuing it, I'd like to pose the following questions:
Was your journey worth it?
Did it yield the happiness or results you initially hoped for?
What your current state like?
Were there any unexpected benefits or rewards that came from your practice that you didn't anticipate initially?
Do you now know the meaning of 42? HAHA
Ponderings:
As someone who still considers themselves a beginner and stumbled upon the abundant practice threads here more than nine years ago, it's intriguing to ponder whether those who were active at that time have since realized their initial aspirations ( •́ ⍨ •̀) . Additionally I just realized that it's worth noting that the responses received may be influenced by survivorship bias, given that individuals who " failed" or didn't continue their practice may no longer be part of this community to look around. That most of the things I read about are those who attained it not those people who just moved on with their lives ( ´・仝・`) / .
Thank you!
Was your journey worth it?
Did it yield the happiness or results you initially hoped for?
What your current state like?
Were there any unexpected benefits or rewards that came from your practice that you didn't anticipate initially?
Do you now know the meaning of 42? HAHA
Ponderings:
As someone who still considers themselves a beginner and stumbled upon the abundant practice threads here more than nine years ago, it's intriguing to ponder whether those who were active at that time have since realized their initial aspirations ( •́ ⍨ •̀) . Additionally I just realized that it's worth noting that the responses received may be influenced by survivorship bias, given that individuals who " failed" or didn't continue their practice may no longer be part of this community to look around. That most of the things I read about are those who attained it not those people who just moved on with their lives ( ´・仝・`) / .
Thank you!
Last edit: 2 years 1 week ago by RJK .
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2 years 1 week ago #120819
by Chris Marti
Replied by Chris Marti on topic Was it worth it?
Your question assumes the journey has an end.

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2 years 1 week ago #120820
by Papa-Dusko
Replied by Papa-Dusko on topic Was it worth it?
“Do you now know the meaning of 42? HAHA ”



2 years 1 week ago #120821
by Ona Kiser
Replied by Ona Kiser on topic Was it worth it?
I think part of the journey includes eventually coming to a sense of it having been worth it; a sense which may come and go over time, and which may sometimes seem kind of irrelevant.
Wanting to undertake spiritual practice for self-improvement reasons ("what do I get out of this, is it worth it") is also a thing that is part of the journey, and will come and go, and may eventually seem irrelevant.
The neat thing I find about practice is that can serve as a kind of thread around which everything swirls. Motives change, experiences change, reasons for hating/loving practice change, friendships around practice change. To some degree practice changes, too, even if one keeps to a specific routine of practices (say, a monastic routine in some specific religion). You can say the same prayer every day and it will be different, mean something different, resonate differently, each day, or week, or month.
So that's kind of part of the fun, or sometimes all of the above is just frustrating, or exciting, or boring, or scary, or sad, or fun... it varies.
Wanting to undertake spiritual practice for self-improvement reasons ("what do I get out of this, is it worth it") is also a thing that is part of the journey, and will come and go, and may eventually seem irrelevant.
The neat thing I find about practice is that can serve as a kind of thread around which everything swirls. Motives change, experiences change, reasons for hating/loving practice change, friendships around practice change. To some degree practice changes, too, even if one keeps to a specific routine of practices (say, a monastic routine in some specific religion). You can say the same prayer every day and it will be different, mean something different, resonate differently, each day, or week, or month.
So that's kind of part of the fun, or sometimes all of the above is just frustrating, or exciting, or boring, or scary, or sad, or fun... it varies.
2 years 1 week ago #120824
by RJK
Replied by RJK on topic Was it worth it?
I appreciate all the responses; they've given me valuable food for thought. As I continue to practice, I've noticed a growing willingness to embrace change. I've become more open to new perspectives, motives, and an acceptance of perpetual change (。◝‿◜。) .
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2 years 1 week ago #120832
by Chris Marti
Replied by Chris Marti on topic Was it worth it?
What is it "worth" to understand at a deep level how one's experience, from moment to moment, is constructed?
For me, this is the key to the "Is it worth it?" question. There's no value that can be placed on it, there's no way it can be bought or discovered under a rock somewhere. The only way to get this deep knowledge is to take a hero's journey through the mind. Yes, there are little bits we can point to - knowing how full of shit I can be, how I adapt quickly to changing circumstances because I don't focus on what should be but rather on what is. But those things don't seem to add up to the mind-known part. That's the part that I wouldn't give up for fortune, fame, or anything else. I'd rather be dead than return to my previous ignorance.
Oh, and it's truly critical to know that no matter what, we'll still have feelings and emotions. We can learn what those things are, how they work, and where they come from, but they're always and forever what makes us human. There is no way around being human when you're... human.
For me, this is the key to the "Is it worth it?" question. There's no value that can be placed on it, there's no way it can be bought or discovered under a rock somewhere. The only way to get this deep knowledge is to take a hero's journey through the mind. Yes, there are little bits we can point to - knowing how full of shit I can be, how I adapt quickly to changing circumstances because I don't focus on what should be but rather on what is. But those things don't seem to add up to the mind-known part. That's the part that I wouldn't give up for fortune, fame, or anything else. I'd rather be dead than return to my previous ignorance.
Oh, and it's truly critical to know that no matter what, we'll still have feelings and emotions. We can learn what those things are, how they work, and where they come from, but they're always and forever what makes us human. There is no way around being human when you're... human.
2 years 1 week ago - 2 years 1 week ago #120833
by RJK
Replied by RJK on topic Was it worth it?
Thanks Chris for your insight O(-人-)O
Last edit: 2 years 1 week ago by RJK .
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2 years 1 week ago - 2 years 1 week ago #120834
by Chris Marti
Replied by Chris Marti on topic Was it worth it?
I forgot to include something: this thing (awakening and the path to it) fosters basic sanity. This is not always the case because there are people who are awake and yet still kind of crazy or maladjusted. But those are exceptions.
Last edit: 2 years 1 week ago by Chris Marti.
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2 years 1 week ago #120835
by Papa-Dusko
Replied by Papa-Dusko on topic Was it worth it?
Chris Marti wrote: I forgot to include something: this thing (awakening and the path to it) fosters basic sanity. This is not always the case because there are people who are awake and yet still kind of crazy or maladjusted. But those are exceptions.

2 years 1 week ago - 2 years 1 week ago #120836
by RJK
Replied by RJK on topic Was it worth it?
How intriguing, Chris. Can you offer some speculation as to why, despite numerous fruitions and cessation, they still exhibit signs of maladjustment? I thought by that point they would have adapted or acted better
Last edit: 2 years 1 week ago by RJK .
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2 years 1 week ago #120837
by Chris Marti
Replied by Chris Marti on topic Was it worth it?
Sex scandals among Zen Roshis. Scandal in the top echelon of the Shambala order. Gurus who abuse their followers.
No need for speculation. We’re all human. Sometimes the foibles and the maladjustments stick, even during and after. Awakening is not a cure for every condition.
No need for speculation. We’re all human. Sometimes the foibles and the maladjustments stick, even during and after. Awakening is not a cure for every condition.
2 years 6 days ago #120838
by RJK
Replied by RJK on topic Was it worth it?
Bit of disappointment after all of those practice to just lack basic ethical restraint (。•́︿•̀。) . But something that is just all too human.
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2 years 6 days ago #120839
by Michelle Stone
For me it was certainly worth it and waking up initiated a new journey of coming to terms with/accepting myself.
Although the technical aspects of dharma are interesting and fruitions/cessations give one a sense of progress, by themselves they don't do anything for your ethical perspective, which is why I think other practices such as metta and tonglen (coming from a purely buddhist stance here, other traditions have their equivalents) are so important.
Replied by Michelle Stone on topic Was it worth it?
This.Chris Marti wrote: I forgot to include something: this thing (awakening and the path to it) fosters basic sanity.
For me it was certainly worth it and waking up initiated a new journey of coming to terms with/accepting myself.
Although the technical aspects of dharma are interesting and fruitions/cessations give one a sense of progress, by themselves they don't do anything for your ethical perspective, which is why I think other practices such as metta and tonglen (coming from a purely buddhist stance here, other traditions have their equivalents) are so important.
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2 years 6 days ago #120842
by microbuddha
Replied by microbuddha on topic Was it worth it?
Yup, it was and is still worth it. All the practice, the practice of practice, the not practicing practice, Learning about all the forms of dharma, constant learning and changing perceptions. I see the mile markers on the journey, but it is is never ending...
2 years 5 days ago #120850
by Kacchapa
Replied by Kacchapa on topic Was it worth it?
Was your journey worth it? - Yes
Did it yield the happiness or results you initially hoped for? - No
What your current state like? - It doesn't seem helpful for my practice to try to characterize that right now. It seems helpful to let go of views about myself.
Were there any unexpected benefits or rewards that came from your practice that you didn't anticipate initially? - most of it I didn't anticipate initially.
I first became committed to the idea of myself practicing Buddhism to become enlightened, liberated and benevolent etc 53 years ago. So far I'd say it's mostly been a path of relating more skillfully with my karma and discovering some of how valuable it is to let go of views.
Did it yield the happiness or results you initially hoped for? - No
What your current state like? - It doesn't seem helpful for my practice to try to characterize that right now. It seems helpful to let go of views about myself.
Were there any unexpected benefits or rewards that came from your practice that you didn't anticipate initially? - most of it I didn't anticipate initially.
I first became committed to the idea of myself practicing Buddhism to become enlightened, liberated and benevolent etc 53 years ago. So far I'd say it's mostly been a path of relating more skillfully with my karma and discovering some of how valuable it is to let go of views.
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2 years 4 days ago #120854
by Kate Gowen
Replied by Kate Gowen on topic Was it worth it?
The question would seem to imply that there was, or is, some alternative— unspecified and theoretical.
That doesn’t seem to me to be the case. To extrapolate from a Zen master (Katagiri, perhaps) who said, “You have to say something”— you have to do something, make some choice, moment by moment, step by step…
And thus, here we are.
That doesn’t seem to me to be the case. To extrapolate from a Zen master (Katagiri, perhaps) who said, “You have to say something”— you have to do something, make some choice, moment by moment, step by step…
And thus, here we are.
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2 years 4 days ago - 2 years 4 days ago #120855
by Chris Marti
Replied by Chris Marti on topic Was it worth it?
To me, the choice is either to take up the journey (the journey being traversing the spiritual path of awakening) or to remain in our habitual ignorance.
Last edit: 2 years 4 days ago by Chris Marti.
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2 years 4 days ago #120856
by Kate Gowen
Replied by Kate Gowen on topic Was it worth it?
I am trying to articulate the sense in which, after initial insight, the “choice” to unsee what one has seen, un-know what one knows, feign remaining in one’s prior ignorance— seems more fantasy than actual choice.
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2 years 3 days ago #120862
by Chris Marti
Replied by Chris Marti on topic Was it worth it?
That's what I would call ignorance - inability to see how stuff is formed and holds sway over us. I can't imagine that being anyone's choice having seen the process behind it all. Is that what you're saying, Kate?
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2 years 3 days ago #120863
by Kate Gowen
Replied by Kate Gowen on topic Was it worth it?
I was trying to get at my sense that the precipitating insight is more than just a kind of vision— it’s a recognition of what the vision implies and the sense of being implicated in it. Something of Krishnamurt’s “choiceless awareness,” something related to Trungpa’s warning that there’s no going back from the Tantric path. “Better not to start. If you start, better to finish. You’re riding a tiger.”
Or maybe I’m speaking from my own idiosyncratic perspective and I’m mistaken.
Or maybe I’m speaking from my own idiosyncratic perspective and I’m mistaken.
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2 years 2 days ago #120864
by Chris Marti
Replied by Chris Marti on topic Was it worth it?
Ok, Kate. I'm familiar with that - and agree with it. Once past a certain point of insight there's no going back. It's me that was not understanding you. I can be pretty dense sometimes.
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2 years 2 days ago #120866
by Papa-Dusko
Replied by Papa-Dusko on topic Was it worth it?
Once passed the A&P Nana of the pre-SE journey, there is no going back.
That strong sense of a witness behind the eyes can get a strong sense of “this is it! This is the true self that knows it all!” And as such can’t un-see this experiencing.
From my limited experience that is.
Btw have no clue what Krishnamurti’s choiceless awareness has anything to do with it?
That strong sense of a witness behind the eyes can get a strong sense of “this is it! This is the true self that knows it all!” And as such can’t un-see this experiencing.
From my limited experience that is.
Btw have no clue what Krishnamurti’s choiceless awareness has anything to do with it?