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Choosing Your Door
- Femtosecond
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10 years 8 months ago #97484
by Femtosecond
Choosing Your Door was created by Femtosecond
Tonight I was finding myself wondering if its possible to choose the door you go through SE by. What do you guys think?
10 years 8 months ago #97485
by Russell
Replied by Russell on topic Choosing Your Door
I don't think you can choose when, why or how it will happen.
- Femtosecond
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10 years 8 months ago #97486
by Femtosecond
Replied by Femtosecond on topic Choosing Your Door
Hm, yeah.
Maybe I should have named this thread something else, and made it be about things that are manipulable. For instance, I remember hearing from someone at the BG conference about Dr. Jeffrey Martin and the approach he developed, which entails a lot of positive thinking type stuff before taking the plunge into insight territory.
Maybe I should have named this thread something else, and made it be about things that are manipulable. For instance, I remember hearing from someone at the BG conference about Dr. Jeffrey Martin and the approach he developed, which entails a lot of positive thinking type stuff before taking the plunge into insight territory.
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10 years 8 months ago - 10 years 8 months ago #97489
by every3rdthought
Replied by every3rdthought on topic Choosing Your Door
Certainly in Theravada, there is the paradigm that one of the doors will be the door to stream entry, and also that every person is a certain type (with one of the kilesas predominating, and/or with one of the kilesas very weak) - and this will influence one's path e.g. I once had a Burmese teacher tell me that I was an adosa type and that is why a lot of negative stuff came up for me in practice making retreats difficult. But I have never heard anyone say this is something you can choose, and it seems to me that it wouldn't be - it's more a question of karmic propensity. I have never had any experiences similar to those described by Daniel (Kenneth?) where particular phenomenological types of visions, sensations etc are associated with doors - the kind of, 'the universe turning into a blue rhomboid is the dukkha door' descriptions or similar.
Last edit: 10 years 8 months ago by every3rdthought.
10 years 8 months ago #97494
by Russell
There are many traditions (most it seems) that take a different approach to what we are doing here in the pragmatic dharma world. Many do massive amounts of surrender, concentration, purification work before any insight practice. We kind of do it the reverse way and it can be bumpy or jarring. I am still not sure what you are asking. What are you trying to achieve with your manipulation?
Replied by Russell on topic Choosing Your Door
Femtosecond wrote: Hm, yeah.
Maybe I should have named this thread something else, and made it be about things that are manipulable. For instance, I remember hearing from someone at the BG conference about Dr. Jeffrey Martin and the approach he developed, which entails a lot of positive thinking type stuff before taking the plunge into insight territory.
There are many traditions (most it seems) that take a different approach to what we are doing here in the pragmatic dharma world. Many do massive amounts of surrender, concentration, purification work before any insight practice. We kind of do it the reverse way and it can be bumpy or jarring. I am still not sure what you are asking. What are you trying to achieve with your manipulation?
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10 years 8 months ago #97495
by Femtosecond
Replied by Femtosecond on topic Choosing Your Door
I was just thinking it would be better to have a no self/impermanence door, to be totally honest.
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10 years 8 months ago #97496
by Femtosecond
Replied by Femtosecond on topic Choosing Your Door
Also maybe you could say I was just a little braced by some unpleasant things coming up in my experience. So, I was sort of concerned at the moment
10 years 8 months ago #97498
by Kristijan
Replied by Kristijan on topic Choosing Your Door
Can you explain the bolded part?Russell wrote:
There are many traditions (most it seems) that take a different approach to what we are doing here in the pragmatic dharma world. Many do massive amounts of surrender, concentration, purification work before any insight practice. We kind of do it the reverse way and it can be bumpy or jarring. I am still not sure what you are asking. What are you trying to achieve with your manipulation?
10 years 8 months ago #97501
by Russell
Replied by Russell on topic Choosing Your Door
I guess reverse wasn't the right word. We tend to skip Step one and move right to step two, starting with insight practices.
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10 years 8 months ago - 10 years 8 months ago #97519
by matthew sexton
Replied by matthew sexton on topic Choosing Your Door
I listened to a podcast on:
thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com/p/hamilt...roject-podcasts.html
It was the guys sitting around talking about different ways to have fruitions, and having them, in real-time right there in the podcast. They had about 20 while the recorder was running. One guy would say, "hey, try it this way" and the others would 'do it' for a few seconds and then say, "yeah that was cool".
Assuming that was all true, I think the answer to your question is "yes".
Sorry I don't remember exactly which podcast it was, I think they joked at the end that the podcast ended up being mislabelled.
It was the guys sitting around talking about different ways to have fruitions, and having them, in real-time right there in the podcast. They had about 20 while the recorder was running. One guy would say, "hey, try it this way" and the others would 'do it' for a few seconds and then say, "yeah that was cool".
Assuming that was all true, I think the answer to your question is "yes".
Sorry I don't remember exactly which podcast it was, I think they joked at the end that the podcast ended up being mislabelled.
Last edit: 10 years 8 months ago by matthew sexton.
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10 years 8 months ago #97520
by Femtosecond
Replied by Femtosecond on topic Choosing Your Door
Yeah, but the first time? According to MCTB that's something that happens dependent largely on your makeup. So I was thinking about being able to change that before it even happens. But maybe the subsequent recurrences are also enough to make a significant change.
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10 years 8 months ago #97521
by matthew sexton
Replied by matthew sexton on topic Choosing Your Door
On that subject, I remain ignorant. 
10 years 8 months ago #97569
by Tom Otvos
-- tomo
Replied by Tom Otvos on topic Choosing Your Door
I keep coming back to this topic, debating whether to weigh in or not. Obviously I decided.
This topic, and another one you posted, both have this tone or sentiment of trying to "game the system", get an edge, affect the outcome. It really doesn't work that way...it can't work that way. The practice is not about manipulation, but is one of discovery. Yes, there are certain practice techniques, which is a manipulation of sorts. But those techniques are designed to show you what you really are, and you can't fool yourself into discovering something about yourself that you are not. If it were that easy, well, then what would be the point?
Just. Do. The. Practice.
You need to get to equanimity first, and I guarantee you that it won't happen until you get out of your way. I know how counterintuitive that sounds, and I fought that a long time, but that is the way it has to be. I sometimes get this mental image of a scene from "Contact", where she finally meets the alien, and she has a ton of questions, and the response is, effectively, "give it time". "Small moves". It has been done this way for billions of years, yada. It is simple, yet it is very hard.
This topic, and another one you posted, both have this tone or sentiment of trying to "game the system", get an edge, affect the outcome. It really doesn't work that way...it can't work that way. The practice is not about manipulation, but is one of discovery. Yes, there are certain practice techniques, which is a manipulation of sorts. But those techniques are designed to show you what you really are, and you can't fool yourself into discovering something about yourself that you are not. If it were that easy, well, then what would be the point?
Just. Do. The. Practice.
You need to get to equanimity first, and I guarantee you that it won't happen until you get out of your way. I know how counterintuitive that sounds, and I fought that a long time, but that is the way it has to be. I sometimes get this mental image of a scene from "Contact", where she finally meets the alien, and she has a ton of questions, and the response is, effectively, "give it time". "Small moves". It has been done this way for billions of years, yada. It is simple, yet it is very hard.
-- tomo
10 years 8 months ago #97573
by Shargrol
Replied by Shargrol on topic Choosing Your Door
Although Femto you are always very vague about emotions, mood, and thoughts in your practice, it's clear you are hitting something new. (I think you said you were working with a teacher, so this sort of stuff is great to discuss with them.) All practioners, when the time is right, will eventually need to spend more time noting emotions, moods, and thoughts, including the sensations of what is giving you practice concerns, the fear, the feelings of inadequacy, the uncertainty itself. Eventually you need to be able to note those as mind objects and just let them be. Same thing with the desire to change or protect yourself, eventually those just need to be noted and let be. The world won't end, but it might feel that way. Ultimately, it will just feel like you aren't controlling your experience. This is actually a great freedom and the foundation for great well-being, not to be constantly controlling, choosing, guiding, directing... but it takes a while before we can let go like that.